Procter off ICC Match-Referee panel?

[social]

I can only assume that most of you guys havent played much open age cricket because, in my experience, words of the type used by McGrath and Sarwan are commonplace

Furthermore, whilst its more common amongst the Aussies, Saffies and Brits, as we've had amply demonstrated at the highest level in the last few years, it's not the exclusive domain of those nations

If people dont like it, turn off the mikes so the world at large is not subjected to reality or start following a different game

 

[R_D]

When you call someone names, abuse them using foul language that you would never allow to be used at home by your children, you cant turn around and set standards for "how foul the response of the other party can or should be". It doesn't work like that. If you are going to say and do things to work up other people into a rage (or at least try to) you have to take the consequences even if you are stupid enough not to know that rage has no limits. People go mad, momentarily, in a rage. Dont expect them to remember the health card of your family members in that state.

I consider myself very conservative in matters of politeness but if I was driven to a state bordering on rage by someone bent on insulting me and he said something on the lines of what McGrath said to Sarwan, I wouldn't be surprised if I said something on the lines of what Sarwan said. I would have done it not because I was aware at that moment of his wife's condition but because I had reached a point where I was in no condition to consider all those things before I made my angry retort.

I can see why McGrath would be enraged by what Sarwan had said but I wouldn't ever think Sarwan said it BECAUSE he knew of his wife's condition. He said it because in that moment of madness he was in no position to recall it before framing what was an instant retort.

McGrath brought it upon himself. It sounds cruel but thats what it is.

Yeah very well written.. similar sentiments here.
Good news on M Proctor.... need to get rid off incompetent Chris Broad as well.

 

[Precambrian]

I can only assume that most of you guys havent played much open age cricket because, in my experience, words of the type used by McGrath and Sarwan are commonplace

Furthermore, whilst its more common amongst the Aussies, Saffies and Brits, as we've had amply demonstrated at the highest level in the last few years, it's not the exclusive domain of those nations

If people dont like it, turn off the mikes so the world at large is not subjected to reality or start following a different game

Old frog in the well.

 

[silentstriker]

I can only assume that most of you guys havent played much open age cricket because, in my experience, words of the type used by McGrath and Sarwan are commonplace

Furthermore, whilst its more common amongst the Aussies, Saffies and Brits, as we've had amply demonstrated at the highest level in the last few years, it's not the exclusive domain of those nations

If people dont like it, turn off the mikes so the world at large is not subjected to reality or start following a different game

Turn it up completely. If you're an ineloquent moron with the vocabulary of an eleven year old, the world (and your sponsors) should know.

 

[duffer]

Proctor was largely incompetent so this is real good news. I think SJS summed up the abusive language issue very well too.

 

[social]

Turn it up completely. If you're an ineloquent moron with the vocabulary of an eleven year old, the world (and your sponsors) should know.

If you turn the mikes up completely, dont then complain about the standard of dialogue as you've just summed up the vast majority of mainstream professional sportsmen in the world

 

[Precambrian]

If you turn the mikes up completely, dont then complain about the standard of dialogue as you've just summed up the vast majority of mainstream professional sportsmen in the world

Geez are you really indulging in some narcissitic self deprecation?

 

[Sanz]

I can only assume that most of you guys havent played much open age cricket because, in my experience, words of the type used by McGrath and Sarwan are commonplace

You talk as If you played cricket alongside Sir Don Bradman. If this is what your experience is then it tells a lot about you and the people you played your cricket with. It just doesn't mean that everyone else had the same experience.

 

[social]

You talk as If you played cricket alongside Sir Don Bradman. If this is what your experience is then it tells a lot about you and the people you played your cricket with. It just doesn't mean that everyone else had the same experience.

The reality is that swearing, obscene gestures etc are so commonplace in society today that laws have been passed specifically excluding them from censorship in MANY countries

To pretend that sportsmen should somehow have to operate under a higher standard than ordinary society dictates tells me that either you still havent moved out of Wonderland or that you're talking your usual crap

 

[zaremba]

Disagree.

1. Indian team, I think every team tours without a legal eagle, one simply does not anticipate such things, and the hearing was immediately after the match, which didnt give time to get things done.

2. In a hearing with match referree, there is no requirement for a legal representative. Words of the players are heard, and decisions taken on that regard. Here, Proctor simply refused to give any importance to what Tendulkar, possibly the prime witness, had to say, and took a decision that had absolutely no ground evidences except Symond's own words.

3.It is bull**** to accuse team manager of being "incompetent" to "draft" questions to be asked at a hearing. A team manager is there to take care of the team, and is not expected to be proficient in matters of law.

I think Proctor royally screwed up there, and given his antecedents, "Australians and Saffies are "natural" sledgers, so they deserve less punishment than others" tells how much of a pathetic character he was.

There's no need to descend to the level of accusing anyone of talking "bull****". Most people on this forum are capable of a higher standard of debate than that.

The fact that legal representation is not compulsory doesn't mean it's not wise to engage legal representation. I'm not saying the tour manager was to blame for his lack of ability to act as advocate a disciplinary hearing. The fact is that he's not a lawyer and as you say is not expected to be proficient in matters of law. And indeed he wasn't proficient, and the result I think reflected that. It seems pretty obvious to me that they should have hired a lawyer for the hearing (believe it or not there are lawyers for hire in Sydney, and at short notice - there's no need to have one as part of your tour party), given the importance of the issue at stake.

 

[Richard]

The reality is that swearing, obscene gestures etc are so commonplace in society today that laws have been passed specifically excluding them from censorship in MANY countries

To pretend that sportsmen should somehow have to operate under a higher standard than ordinary society dictates tells me that either you still havent moved out of Wonderland or that you're talking your usual crap

You see snooker players yelling foul-mouthed crap at each other during the course of a game do you?

You see people yelling foul-mouthed crap at others for walking past them in the street do you?

Cricket is a game. There is absolutely no need to go anywhere near so far as any number of people go during the course of it.

Foul-mouthed crap is generally spewed forth for some amount of good reason - at least, among those who retain an ounce of respect for society. Societal drop-outs, obviously, are not worth consideration.

A game of cricket is not good enough reason for it. It's a game.

And yes, public figures, of all types, do have higher expectations placed on them. It's the nature of the beast. You do something high-profile, you reap the rewards and you have to take the consequences.

 

[Richard]

When you call someone names, abuse them using foul language that you would never allow to be used at home by your children, you cant turn around and set standards for "how foul the response of the other party can or should be". It doesn't work like that. If you are going to say and do things to work up other people into a rage (or at least try to) you have to take the consequences even if you are stupid enough not to know that rage has no limits. People go mad, momentarily, in a rage. Dont expect them to remember the health card of your family members in that state.

I consider myself very conservative in matters of politeness but if I was driven to a state bordering on rage by someone bent on insulting me and he said something on the lines of what McGrath said to Sarwan, I wouldn't be surprised if I said something on the lines of what Sarwan said. I would have done it not because I was aware at that moment of his wife's condition but because I had reached a point where I was in no condition to consider all those things before I made my angry retort.

I can see why McGrath would be enraged by what Sarwan had said but I wouldn't ever think Sarwan said it BECAUSE he knew of his wife's condition. He said it because in that moment of madness he was in no position to recall it before framing what was an instant retort.

McGrath brought it upon himself. It sounds cruel but thats what it is.

Yeah, those are my exact thoughts really. You make your bed, you lie on it.

What's best is that all are discouraged from making this particular sort of bed.

 

[Richard]

First Hair, now Proctor.Good to see ICC distancing themselves from incompetent guys.

Don't think I$C$C are particularly distancing themselves from anyone - as I say, Procter has apparently taken-up a position as SA's CoS, and you'd presume you can't act as judge and barrister for the defendant (that's not an exact analogy, obviously, but you get the gist).

 

[social]

You see snooker players yelling foul-mouthed crap at each other during the course of a game do you?

You see people yelling foul-mouthed crap at others for walking past them in the street do you?

Cricket is a game. There is absolutely no need to go anywhere near so far as any number of people go during the course of it.

Foul-mouthed crap is generally spewed forth for some amount of good reason - at least, among those who retain an ounce of respect for society. Societal drop-outs, obviously, are not worth consideration.

A game of cricket is not good enough reason for it. It's a game.

And yes, public figures, of all types, do have higher expectations placed on them. It's the nature of the beast. You do something high-profile, you reap the rewards and you have to take the consequences.

Tell that to participants in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NRL, Premier League etc etc etc all of whom make cricketers look like choir boys.

And, btw, look up the name Alex "Hurricane" Higgins if you dont think it happens in snooker

 

[Richard]

OK, so when did Higgins go so far as actually abusing his opponent accross the room? Heck, even John McEnroe only exceptionally rarely went that far, and he was the master of using histrionics in a sport where it's supposed to be outlawed.

Higgins was (is) a grade-A knob, yes, but he was never a Glenn McGrath or Merv Hughes.

Several of the sports you name I've never watched (attentively) so much as a single ball of in my life. And yes, many Premiership footballers are regularly castigated - rightly - for being poor role-models. I'd be far from sorry to see them forced to clean-up their acts too.

 

[social]

OK, so when did Higgins go so far as actually abusing his opponent accross the room? Heck, even John McEnroe only exceptionally rarely went that far, and he was the master of using histrionics in a sport where it's supposed to be outlawed.

Higgins was (is) a grade-A knob, yes, but he was never a Glenn McGrath or Merv Hughes.

Several of the sports you name I've never watched (attentively) so much as a single ball of in my life. And yes, many Premiership footballers are regularly castigated - rightly - for being poor role-models. I'd be far from sorry to see them forced to clean-up their acts too.

Amongst other things, Higgins has twice assaulted (head-butt and a punch) officials during matches so to compare him to McGrath and Hughes is plainly ridiculous

As for the Premier League, I bet refs sometimes wished that they were paid by the number of times they were told to "*&^%$" off during a match - the standard of behaviour is appalling in almost every aspect

Anyway, there's little point in providing examples of how cricket is not actually that bad if you havent watched many other professional sports

 

[Richard]

Amongst other things, Higgins has twice assaulted (head-butt and a punch) officials during matches so to compare him to McGrath and Hughes is plainly ridiculous

Which really rather begs the question of why he hasn't been banned for life. Presumably because even though he's a grade-A knob as I say, it's only been one-off instances. Most if not all other snooker players have never done anything of the sort.

As for the Premier League, I bet refs sometimes wished that they were paid by the number of times they were told to "*&^%$" off during a match - the standard of behaviour is appalling in almost every aspect

And? As I say, it's said almost daily that these types are a bad influence on society and that something should be done to get them to clean-up their acts. Yet to happen, obviously.

 

[duffer]

Tell that to participants in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NRL, Premier League etc etc etc all of whom make cricketers look like choir boys.

And, btw, look up the name Alex "Hurricane" Higgins if you dont think it happens in snooker

NBA has banned all trash talk and taunting for a number of years now. Baseball in the Major Leagues is as flavourless as you'll find too. As for their behaviour off the field you're right they do make Aussie athletes even the Rugby League and AFl guys look like Kindergarteners.

 

[social]

NBA has banned all trash talk and taunting for a number of years now. Baseball in the Major Leagues is as flavourless as you'll find too. As for their behaviour off the field you're right they do make Aussie athletes even the Rugby League and AFl guys look like Kindergarteners.

Even basketball and baseball, which are supposed to be non-contact sports, have their share of brawls every season.

And yet here we are complaining about the fact that some cricketers use abusive language towards each other every now and again and *shock, horror* have even escaped punishment for doing so

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous

 

[Richard]

So, the fact that a murderer may have got away means there's no point punishing someone who's been caught red-handed shoplifting?

No, sorry, that's ridiculous. Just because you can't punish all the worst crimes doesn't mean less significant crimes which can be dealt with should just be ignored.