Predictions for England winter tours in IND & PAK

[Swervy]

they are...but in indian conditions, that difference is reduced greatly....

of course they are, however England should be in a great position to really challenge..as lets face it, they really challenged last time, with a vastly inferior team and thats when India were a better team

 

[greg]

2. I have watched ENG play this series and its nominal reverse swing AT BEST.... Jones has used it deftly at times but if you wanna see what reverse swing is all about, watch Waqar and Wasim scythe through England in the early 90s and make Hick their bunny.
All of the english bowlers are limited, who dont have what it takes at this point to bowl well in the india.
Harmison is predominantly pace and bounce - two things you dont get much in india.
Flintoff cant move it unless it is england or seaming wickets and in West Indies last year, he hardly moved it more than an inch. Jones might be a handful every now and then when he gets that nominal reverse swing going and Giles is...well..Giles.. Hoggard struggles to move the ball in non-seaming conditions.
If India bats to its callibre (that is, if Tendulkar comes back well from injury and Ganguly-Laxman discover some form), 400+ scores will be posted with alarming regularity against this english attack.

I really think that Flintoff's success has little to do with "English wickets". The fact is that he didn't know how to reverse swing the ball until this summer.

I also don't understand what you mean by "nominal reverse swing". If what we have seen this summer hasn't been a pretty fine example of reverse swing (and big reverse swing at that) bowling then the Australian batsmen might as well give up now. They'll never be any good.

 

[chalky]

they are...but in indian conditions, that difference is reduced greatly....

India's test home for hasn't been so great recently really has it though?

Draw's against Pakistan, a New Zealand side that England would whitewash 6 months later and a loss to australia in the last two years. I only saw the Australian series so don't know the details of the series but just looking at the scorecards India conceded some huge first innings scores with I think the cumulative average first innings score being around 400.

 

[C_C]

ok..well we will see

just on that about the reverse swing..I agree that Waqar and Wasim were bowling it incredibly back then..however I do still raise the odd eyebrow when thinking of how it was acheived!!!!!! (Bottletops at the ready!!!)

By the way, Hoggard struggles in non-SWINGING conditions.

Well did you hear what Boycott had to say about Wasim,Waqar, England and oranges ?


PS: there is no evidence about Wasim -Waqar and bottle tops. Taking that and running with it is taking Atherton's 'dirt in the pocket' incident and running with it...

 

[Swervy]

true to a great extent, regarding the players, i agree mostly with what you say, and also agree that tendulkar is past his best but he is still a world class batsman and i think he will prove it conclusively before he retires....and india is a hugely overhyped team but the hype has developed largely due to the umpteen home victories in recent years...something you seem to regard as myth....

reality: India have played 22 tests at home this decade vs teams who arent Zimbabwe..won 8 , lost 6 and drawn 8

It is a myth...INDIA ARE IN FACT BEATABLE AT HOME..teams tend to play into Indias hands at home...teams who are aggressive beat India..and this England team is about as aggressive as you would ever wish to see

 

[chalky]

Well did you hear what Boycott had to say about Wasim,Waqar, England and oranges ?


PS: there is no evidence about Wasim -Waqar and bottle tops. Taking that and running with it is taking Atherton's 'dirt in the pocket' incident and running with it...

I agree that annoyed me about the English media. Just because Pakistan could do something no one else could they were cheating? They must have been also using bottle tops in SA, WI, Aus and at home where they also used reverse swing to great affect.

 

[Swervy]

Well did you hear what Boycott had to say about Wasim,Waqar, England and oranges ?

PS: there is no evidence about Wasim -Waqar and bottle tops. Taking that and running with it is taking Atherton's 'dirt in the pocket' incident and running with it...

no..what did he say..not that what he says will stop me raising a quizzical eyebrow!!!

 

[Shane Warne]

just a point about that, that was a series in which Australia probably fielded its weakest bowling attack for maybe 15 years..Gillespie was not fit, McGrath was out etc etc....

Put's the two run win at Edgbaston into perspective then doesn't it?

Funny that.

 

[Swervy]

I agree that annoyed me about the English media. Just because Pakistan could do something no one else could they were cheating? They must have been also using bottle tops in SA, WI, Aus and at home where they also used reverse swing to great affect.

who knows!!!!!

 

[Swervy]

Put's the two run win at Edgbaston into perspective then doesn't it?

Funny that.

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick there...Australia hosting India was one of the worst bowling lineups..not Edgbastons

 

[chalky]

[

QUOTE=C_C]Well did you hear what Boycott had to say about Wasim,Waqar, England and oranges ?

Boycott also claims his mother is one of the wotlds greatest cricketers

 

[chalky]

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick there...Australia hosting India was one of the worst bowling lineups..not Edgbastons

Yes I remember that series Brad Williams, Nathen Bracken, And anyone who thinks Macgill is the 3rd best spinner in the world he only averaged over 50.

 

[Sanz]

of course they are, however England should be in a great position to really challenge..as lets face it, they really challenged last time, with a vastly inferior team and thats when India were a better team

Vastly inferior, are you kidding ?? May be in bowling, but in batting I think that team was as good (if not better) as this one. This team has players like Bell, Strauss, KP and to some extent Flintoff who have not proven themselves against Spin. As for the Indian team I dont understand how a team of SS Das, Deep Dasgupta, Dravid, SRT, VVS, Gangs is better than Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, SRT, VVS, Gangs.

That said, I dont think India will have it that easy. This English team has great bowling attack and they are playing with great confidence and that's why my bet is 50:50 for India-England series. As for Pak-Eng series, I think the current Pak team is highly underrated now a days, I think they have a very good batting line up and play fast bowling very well, they are little weak in Fast bowling department, but they have Kaneria so I give Pakistan 50 percent chance of winning the series.

 

[C_C]

no..what did he say..not that what he says will stop me raising a quizzical eyebrow!!!

he said that Wasim and waqar would've bowled out England with oranges

 

[chalky]

Vastly inferior, are you kidding ?? May be in bowling, but in batting I think that team was as good (if not better) as this one. This team has players like Bell, Strauss, KP and to some extent Flintoff who have not proven themselves against Spin. As for the Indian team I dont understand how a team of SS Das, Deep Dasgupta, Dravid, SRT, VVS, Gangs is better than Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, SRT, VVS, Gangs.

That said, I dont think India will have it that easy. This English team has great bowling attack and they are playing with great confidence and that's why my bet is 50:50 for India-England series. As for Pak-Eng series, I think the current Pak team is highly underrated now a days, I think they have a very good batting line up and play fast bowling very well, they are little weak in Fast bowling department, but they have Kaneria so I give Pakistan 50 percent chance of winning the series.

It will be interesting to see what type of pitches Pakistan will produce. I still think they made a big mistake last time producing those low slow turners.

 

[chalky]

Vastly inferior, are you kidding ?? May be in bowling, but in batting I think that team was as good (if not better) as this one. This team has players like Bell, Strauss, KP and to some extent Flintoff who have not proven themselves against Spin

Engalnds Team from the first test:
Butcher
Trescothick
Hussain
Thorpe
Ramprakash
Flintoff
White
Foster
Ormond
Dawson
Hoggard

Don't think he is kidding do you?

 

[Sanz]

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick there...Australia hosting India was one of the worst bowling lineups..not Edgbastons

Errr..couple of things,

1. India were playing away from home, England are playing at home.
2. Gillespie was bowling much better than he is now
3. Presence/Absence of warnie doesn't really matter against India

 

[shankar]

If you hadnt noticed its more the England bowling that is putting England into great positions more than the batting....and if you had watched, you would have seen that mcGraths bowling wasnt really affected by his ankle..McGrath actually bowled pretty damned well, with just a slight faultering in line to some of the lefties

hardly any bowler is ever at 100% by the way

So England racking up scores of 400 in the first innings hasnt been a key factor? And I was mainly talking abt the second test match where there was no Mcgrath.

 

[Beleg]

It will be interesting to see what type of pitches Pakistan will produce. I still think they made a big mistake last time producing those low slow turners

You can pretty much expect the pitches to be either slow turners (Multan, Peshawar?) or skidish, low ones with patches of green grass scattered haphazardly. (Lahore)

 

[Sanz]

Engalnds Team from the first test:
Butcher
Trescothick
Hussain
Thorpe
Ramprakash
Flintoff,
White
Foster
Ormond
Dawson
Hoggard

Don't think he is kidding do you?

Not Really !

Tresco, Butcher, Vaughan, Hussian, Thorpe/Ramprakash,Flintofff , White

Vs.

Tresco, Strauss, Vaughan, Bell, Flintoff, KP

Which team would you rather have bat in subcontinent ?