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Possible Ashes stating line-ups & England possible touring squad
- Thread starter aussie
- Start date
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
I'm not suggesting he's had a great time, but it's not as though he's averaging 50. Unless he had a really bad run, I doubt they'd overlook him for selection because of it. I'm sure the selectors have known for a while who is in the running to be picked in Brisbane, and they'll make the final call based on net bowling and so on, not based on whether Gillespie averaged 25 or 32 in England.Nnanden said:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
I certainly think he's ahead of Tait, Johnson, Kasprowicz etc for the moment. It's between him and Clark for the third seamer spot in the games where MacGill doesn't play, which will probably include Brisbane. I think the fact that Gillespie was the best of the seamers in Bangladesh and that he can bat a bit will be in his favour, while obviously Clark was very good in South Africa. Clark has the chance to set himself apart in the CT, and the selectors have shown in the past that they will pick players based on ODI form at times, while obviously Gillespie won't play there.Nnanden said:Accepted.Where abouts do you think he slots into things? Starting side, 57th in line?
Really, I don't know who will be picked, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't one of those two.
After Gillespie and Clark, I think Johnson is next in line. He's been pretty good in the last year or so, including for Australia in the Bangladesh ODIs, and obviously the selectors like him and think he's got potential. If he has one good Pura Cup season he could be in the test side, given that either one of Gillespie or Clark could easily flop and McGrath will retire in the next couple of seasons.
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bluesteel
Cricket Spectator
Aussies Line up
Here is my crack at the Aussies possible Ashes starting list:
The ones in the bold are the stand-out players or the ones that will not change (barring the unfortunate event of an injury)
1. Matthew Hayden
2. Justin Langer - Phil Jacques
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Michael Hussey
5. Michael Clarke / Damien Martyn / Phil Jacques
6. Andrew Symonds / Shane Watson
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Brett Lee
10. Stuart Clark / Jason Gillespie / Shaun Tait / Mitchell Johnson / Stuart Macgill
11. Glenn McGrath
So out of that line up there are 7 definites and out of the other four place, three of them (spots 2, 5 & 6) are being battled by 6 players. I hate to say it but I think Justin Langer is really on the knifes edge - he has been struggling at an international level for about a year now. So Jacques might get the nod....I think in the middle spot (#5) Michael Clarke should get the nod, he is the kind of player that could really take the Ashes for Australia....great players like Steve Waugh / Damien Martyn / Justin langer etc have come out bursting then they hit a rut but become even better because of it...I think Michael Clarke is the man....
Now don't count out Andrew Symonds to get the nod above Shane Watson...but then again Shane has been performing well in the Australia A top-end series and in his county cricket...he has a lot of improvement to come in his bowling.....this will be a really tough decision for the selectors
then the battle for the last bowling spot...Macgill will play at the SCG but will definitely not play at the WACA. Apart from the fact that we have a couple of good young bowlers in Mitchell Johnson and Shaun Tait...I think they will realistically be left out (unless injuries come to McGrath, Lee & Clark) and will be coming on the scene in a year or two when McGrath retires. Stuart Clark has proved he can take some wickets at an international level and he will be a great stop bowler along with Glenn McGrath. But my questions still remains if you need 20 wickets to win a test match, how will they come....Warne on Average will take say 6-10...Lee will take say 5-8...McGrath's wicket taking ability is starting to become a little inconsistent so to give him an average 4-8 as well. A couple of years ago I would give him 6-10, but a bit lower now. Stuart Clark will take maybe 3-6. Then Symonds or Watson will take 2-3.
So taking the lower average of each it will be
Watson / Symonds 2
Lee 5
Warne 6
McGrath 4
Clark 3
That gives me 20.....but my concern lies in Stuart Clark & Glenn McGrath to take 7 wickets between them......I like the firieness of a Mitchell Johnson & Shaun Tait....but then again the line and length of Clark & McGrath can cause problems....but Pieterson & Flintoff proved that if you bowl the same line and length sooner or later they will just swing the bat in the same direction and it will go over the fence....
Here is my crack at the Aussies possible Ashes starting list:
The ones in the bold are the stand-out players or the ones that will not change (barring the unfortunate event of an injury)
1. Matthew Hayden
2. Justin Langer - Phil Jacques
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Michael Hussey
5. Michael Clarke / Damien Martyn / Phil Jacques
6. Andrew Symonds / Shane Watson
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Brett Lee
10. Stuart Clark / Jason Gillespie / Shaun Tait / Mitchell Johnson / Stuart Macgill
11. Glenn McGrath
So out of that line up there are 7 definites and out of the other four place, three of them (spots 2, 5 & 6) are being battled by 6 players. I hate to say it but I think Justin Langer is really on the knifes edge - he has been struggling at an international level for about a year now. So Jacques might get the nod....I think in the middle spot (#5) Michael Clarke should get the nod, he is the kind of player that could really take the Ashes for Australia....great players like Steve Waugh / Damien Martyn / Justin langer etc have come out bursting then they hit a rut but become even better because of it...I think Michael Clarke is the man....
Now don't count out Andrew Symonds to get the nod above Shane Watson...but then again Shane has been performing well in the Australia A top-end series and in his county cricket...he has a lot of improvement to come in his bowling.....this will be a really tough decision for the selectors
then the battle for the last bowling spot...Macgill will play at the SCG but will definitely not play at the WACA. Apart from the fact that we have a couple of good young bowlers in Mitchell Johnson and Shaun Tait...I think they will realistically be left out (unless injuries come to McGrath, Lee & Clark) and will be coming on the scene in a year or two when McGrath retires. Stuart Clark has proved he can take some wickets at an international level and he will be a great stop bowler along with Glenn McGrath. But my questions still remains if you need 20 wickets to win a test match, how will they come....Warne on Average will take say 6-10...Lee will take say 5-8...McGrath's wicket taking ability is starting to become a little inconsistent so to give him an average 4-8 as well. A couple of years ago I would give him 6-10, but a bit lower now. Stuart Clark will take maybe 3-6. Then Symonds or Watson will take 2-3.
So taking the lower average of each it will be
Watson / Symonds 2
Lee 5
Warne 6
McGrath 4
Clark 3
That gives me 20.....but my concern lies in Stuart Clark & Glenn McGrath to take 7 wickets between them......I like the firieness of a Mitchell Johnson & Shaun Tait....but then again the line and length of Clark & McGrath can cause problems....but Pieterson & Flintoff proved that if you bowl the same line and length sooner or later they will just swing the bat in the same direction and it will go over the fence....
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
I really think that Clarke is competing more with Watson and Symonds than with Martyn. There's a real chance that they won't pick any 'all-rounder' type player at all, and go for Ponting, Martyn, Hussey, Clarke from 3 to 6. If Symonds or Watson are picked, it will be at the expense of someone like Clarke.
Guys like Gillespie, Hodge, Jaques and Martyn may well play a couple of Pura Cup games before the Ashes starts, so they might get the chance to impress there. Anyone who doesn't go to the Champions Trophy, that is.
Guys like Gillespie, Hodge, Jaques and Martyn may well play a couple of Pura Cup games before the Ashes starts, so they might get the chance to impress there. Anyone who doesn't go to the Champions Trophy, that is.
bluesteel
Cricket Spectator
all-rounder
I see what you are saying and agree that there is a good chance they won't go for an all-rounder but I think the last Ashes series showed that England had 4-pace bowlers and spinner and it was really they 5-prong bowling attack that gave them a huge edge.
That is why I wonder if Australia can get away with 4 bowlers....they have in the past but against England????? It worked fine against Sth Africa and the West Indies but they aren't the best competition to make many comparisons with??!?!?!?!
I see what you are saying and agree that there is a good chance they won't go for an all-rounder but I think the last Ashes series showed that England had 4-pace bowlers and spinner and it was really they 5-prong bowling attack that gave them a huge edge.
That is why I wonder if Australia can get away with 4 bowlers....they have in the past but against England????? It worked fine against Sth Africa and the West Indies but they aren't the best competition to make many comparisons with??!?!?!?!
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
How much value is someone like Symonds going to be as a bowler though? He bowled fairly well at times last summer, but he's a part-timer, not a strike bowler. There's a big difference between having someone like Flintoff who can run through a side, and someone who just fills in overs.
Mind you, I agree with picking Watson. I like the guy, he's been in pretty good form, and he's got potential to improve further. He'll be quite valuable if they play two spinners, as he's a capable batsman, and he can hopefully bowl a few tight overs and give a bit more flexibility to the attack. There's no point in comparing him to Flintoff though, because they aren't the same sort of player. If Watson takes wickets it's just a bonus, because Australia don't really have someone who can be a genuine fifth bowler and a sixth batsman at the same time, at least not yet.
An attack of McGrath, Lee, Warne and MacGill/Clark/Gillespie/whoever should be capable of taking 20 wickets and winning tests if they are in good form. It'd be nice to have a fifth bowler in there, but we don't have a good enough option.
Mind you, I agree with picking Watson. I like the guy, he's been in pretty good form, and he's got potential to improve further. He'll be quite valuable if they play two spinners, as he's a capable batsman, and he can hopefully bowl a few tight overs and give a bit more flexibility to the attack. There's no point in comparing him to Flintoff though, because they aren't the same sort of player. If Watson takes wickets it's just a bonus, because Australia don't really have someone who can be a genuine fifth bowler and a sixth batsman at the same time, at least not yet.
An attack of McGrath, Lee, Warne and MacGill/Clark/Gillespie/whoever should be capable of taking 20 wickets and winning tests if they are in good form. It'd be nice to have a fifth bowler in there, but we don't have a good enough option.
bluesteel
Cricket Spectator
you are right symonds will not be much value as a bowler...and in considering that I think watson would get the nod before him....that is if they go for an all-rounder. I also see what you are saying in that we don't have a flintoff and that is where we need to make the most of having a gilchrist....see he has been our extra batsmen...but didn't perfrom last time round....If he fires in our line up then we can combat the edge they have with having a Flintoff....
I'm also eager to see how this Monty fellow does...he has come in and taken a few wickets and quite a few people are giving him a big wrap...I don't know if he has truly been tested I mean any decent spinner should be able to take a few wickets at the end of a match....i think Australia really need to have a look at him and try and work out some tactics...
I'm also eager to see how this Monty fellow does...he has come in and taken a few wickets and quite a few people are giving him a big wrap...I don't know if he has truly been tested I mean any decent spinner should be able to take a few wickets at the end of a match....i think Australia really need to have a look at him and try and work out some tactics...
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
All true, but on the point about the 5th bowler, even though we don't have a top-class option of a Flintoff, as i mentioned earlier in this thread i really think Ponting likes having that 5th bowling option up his sleeve & once Watson shows good form in the ODI's if he gets a decent run or in the intial stages of the Pura cup i'm pretty sure he'll get picked.FaaipDeOiad said:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
If he's fit he'll definitely play some time in the Ashes. Whether it's every test or just when both spinners play I'm not sure.aussie said:
howardj
International Coach
Barney Rubble
International Coach
Likewise. I can't think of any feasible reason why you'd drop him instead of someone else, even if Jaques had been averaging 200 for a year. You make room some other way.GeraintIsMyHero said:
aussie tragic
International Captain
I agree except that I'd put Watson at 6 as he would fit nicely between the agressive Clarke & Gilchrist and he's a better bowler than Symonds. I also think it's time that Lee was given the chance to bat at No. 8 above Warne (although maybe Gillespie has a claim given his double hundred in his last testluffy said:
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