Possible Ashes stating line-ups & England possible touring squad

[aussie]

well talk of the ashes is heating up & both sides (more so England) don't totally know what their best XI's for the series may look like.

AUSTRALIA:
For Australia they have two minor problems, in the middle order where Jaques, Clarke, Martyn, Hodge & Watson are battling for two spaces. Right now i could narrow it down to one space by selecting Jaques, i think he has done enough to be able to make the side even if he has to bat in the middle-order, he has done it for Yorkshire & he himself has said he hopes the selectors dont see him just as a opener.

For the next position its very open at the moment, Martyn came back & did fairly well in SA but he will need to score runs in the ODI's & Pura Cup to secure back is place. Clarke on the other hand has been superb in ODI's but didn't really cash in vs Bangladesh so he just has the ODI's & Pura Cup to push for a spot & who knows the fact that he is a brillaint fielder & a decent relief bowler might give him the nod presuming he make runs. Watson chances IMO have had lift due to his decent performances for Aus A in the recent top end series, i think his chances are the best because i feel Ponting & the selectors want that 5th bowling option since ashes thats why the persisted with Symonds so long. If he comes back to play in England this year & does well & does well for Queensland for the initial part of the pura cup i think he has a great chance. Hodge on the other hand was harshly dropped & has been scoring runs ever since, all he needs to do is keep it up because in case of injuries he would be a top option to fall back on, but i think he is behind the first three.

With the bowling the only minor problem Australia have is whether to start with Gillespie or Clark. Dizzy came back with a bang in Bangladesh but has stuggled to take wickets for Yorkshire this season which is hindering him a bit, he needs to start taking wickets to get picked since we all know how valuable his gritty batting is. Clark had a wonderful first series, all he needs to do IMO is back it up with solid performances in the OD & Pura Cup & he might get the nod over Dizzy initially even if Gillespie starts taking wickets in the latter half of the county season.

Based on that this is my Australian 1st test XI:

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Jaques
Hussey
Watson
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Clark
McGrath


ENGLAND:

Well obviously England big problem is with the amount of injuries to the top players, but hopefully the current who are fit stay fit & some that are injures i.e Flintoff, Anderson, Giles & S Jones (probably) can get fit in time.

With the batting i'd say the top 6 looks secured with Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, KP, Colly & Freddie. Read has just got a call-up & hopefully he holds it down for a while yet, until probably Steve Davies probaly lives up to the little hype he is getting. Back-up for me should come from Bell & Butcher who has been batting well this season for Surrey & even though the batting talent in the country is good its still a bit inexperienced & his experience could be useful, if not one can always go to Shah, Joyce or Key.

With the bowling Hoggard & Harmison will start along with Freddie (once fit). From here the headache starts especially with the other fast-bowlers. Plunks & Mahmood have been fairly disappointing & for me should not be on the plane to Australia, Lewis may bowl well in England but down under he would be food. If Jones wont be able to make it which is pretty certain at this stage, hopefully Anderson can get fit soon because if his performace vs India in the Mumbai test was anything to go by he could be a vital cog in England fast bowling Arsenal with Jones out. Also i think Tremlett should be around the set-up i don't know if he is injured or has lost for Hampshire but based on what i saw of him last year he would be a good man to have IMO.

The spinners pick themselves obviosuly, the only problem is hopefully if Gilo returns who to start with. Gilo will work has the holding bowler behind the fast-men & would offer valuable lower-order runs & good out-fielding & if conditions suit he could be effective. He wasted one in the ashes but thats just one time he has bowled well in sub-continental conditions before so its not like he useless on a turner. Panesar on the other hand looks like more of an attacking spinner while he is improving in his batting & fielding but England need to pick their best all-round side & even if Panesar continues to take wickets vs Pakistan if Gilo recovers he shouldn't start, but could still come into play on the pitches at Adelaide or the SCG where England could play both him & Gilo & 3 fast-bowlers.

Also even if Vaughan doesn't play in the ashes, hopefully he does put on an England shirt again.

Based on that, this would be my England starting XI & Touring sqaud:

SQAUD:

Flintoff* - Captain
Read
Jones
Trescothick
Strauss
Cook
Pietersen
Collingwood
Butcher/Joyce/Shah - either would be ok for me
Bell
Giles
Panesar
Harmison
Hoggard
Anderson
Tremlett

STARTING XI:

Trescothick
Strauss
Cook
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Giles
Hoggard
Harmison
Anderson

 

[GIMH]

Chop Giles and Anderson for Bell and Panesar

Trescothick
Strauss
Cook
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
G.Jones
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar

Nothing wrong with that tail, Hoggy has been doing a decent job at 9 for some time, Harmison is a standard number ten, and I still don't think we really know anything about Monty's batting skills.

Pietersen, Colly & Bell can bowl the fill-in overs.

 

[Jamee999]

I agree with GIMH.

 

[aussie]

Chop Giles and Anderson for Bell and Panesar

Trescothick
Strauss
Cook
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
G.Jones
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar

Nothing wrong with that tail, Hoggy has been doing a decent job at 9 for some time, Harmison is a standard number ten, and I still don't think we really know anything about Monty's batting skills.

Pietersen, Colly & Bell can bowl the fill-in overs.

yea i must admit that does look like a better option to my line-up, presuming that Panesar keeps improving with the ball in the remaining tests vs Pakistan it wouldn't be that bad to start him as the main spinner in a 4-man bowling attack, with as you said back up coming from KP, Colly & Bell. Only thing i disagree with is Jones being ahead of Read.

 

[GIMH]

Well I would imagine the majority agree with you on the Keeper

 

[aussie]

well probably, i really hope Read shines in this is 3rd stint as England keeper

 

[adharcric]

AUSTRALIA:
For Australia they have two minor problems, in the middle order where Jaques, Clarke, Martyn, Hodge & Watson are battling for two spaces. Right now i could narrow it down to one space by selecting Jaques, i think he has done enough to be able to make the side even if he has to bat in the middle-order, he has done it for Yorkshire & he himself has said he hopes the selectors dont see him just as a opener.

For the next position its very open at the moment, Martyn came back & did fairly well in SA but he will need to score runs in the ODI's & Pura Cup to secure back is place. Clarke on the other hand has been superb in ODI's but didn't really cash in vs Bangladesh so he just has the ODI's & Pura Cup to push for a spot & who knows the fact that he is a brillaint fielder & a decent relief bowler might give him the nod presuming he make runs. Watson chances IMO have had lift due to his decent performances for Aus A in the recent top end series, i think his chances are the best because i feel Ponting & the selectors want that 5th bowling option since ashes thats why the persisted with Symonds so long. If he comes back to play in England this year & does well & does well for Queensland for the initial part of the pura cup i think he has a great chance. Hodge on the other hand was harshly dropped & has been scoring runs ever since, all he needs to do is keep it up because in case of injuries he would be a top option to fall back on, but i think he is behind the first three.

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Jaques
Hussey
Watson
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Clark
McGrath

More so, I would say the #4 spot is a three-way contest between Jacques, Martyn and Hodge. Meanwhile, Clarke is Watson's only competition at #6 because both can bowl (Watson obviously is more of a genuine threat) and I don't see J, M or H batting at that spot. If Gillespie does merely as well as Clark from here onwards, I think he'll get the nod for the first test because of his history and his batting. Anyways, this would be my squad of 15.

Langer, Hayden, Jacques, Ponting, Martyn, Hussey, Clarke, Watson, Gilchrist, Warne, MacGill, McGrath, Lee, Gillespie, Clark

 

[Oli Norwell]

My 1st test squad (with Strauss named captain for good). The batting goes on and on, the bowling should be fine as long as they stay fit!

Trescothick
Strauss (c)
Cook
Collingwood
Pietersen
Bell
Flintoff
Read
Harmison
Hoggard
Panesar

Vaughan to be pensioned off, S.Jones to replace either Bell or whoever inevitably gets injured when he himself finally gets fit.

This lineup requires Pietersen and Collingwood to bowl 10-15 overs a day though, which could be a problem. If that's the case then you bring in maybe Mahmood or Plunkett, whoever is in form with the bat. But only if the top order are performing.

 

[aussie]

More so, I would say the #4 spot is a three-way contest between Jacques, Martyn and Hodge. Meanwhile, Clarke is Watson's only competition at #6 because both can bowl (Watson obviously is more of a genuine threat) and I don't see J, M or H batting at that spot. If Gillespie does merely as well as Clark from here onwards, I think he'll get the nod for the first test because of his history and his batting. Anyways, this would be my squad of 15.

Langer, Hayden, Jacques, Ponting, Martyn, Hussey, Clarke, Watson, Gilchrist, Warne, MacGill, McGrath, Lee, Gillespie, Clark

Having a rethink, as you said the #4 spot is a 3 way contest but even though i feel Jaques should play i guess it would be kind of harsh on Martyn who was recalled & played fairly well on return to be dropped again, so in that sense i guess Martyn may start but if he fails Jaques would automatically come in.

That 15 is about main nuclues of players i would say will be around the selectors thoughts to win back the ashes, but it would be narrowed down to 13 & that is going to be though.

 

[Hanuma]

Chop Giles and Anderson for Bell and Panesar

Trescothick
Strauss
Cook
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
G.Jones
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar

Nothing wrong with that tail, Hoggy has been doing a decent job at 9 for some time, Harmison is a standard number ten, and I still don't think we really know anything about Monty's batting skills.

Pietersen, Colly & Bell can bowl the fill-in overs.

So then...on paper is that a team that should retain the ashes? .....On paper.

 

[aussie]

Mike Atherton made avery important point the other day,that with Bell in this top form along with most of the middle order, even if Flintoff does recover by October & gets some match preparation in Australia, he feels it unlikely & unwise for England to start the ashes with 7 batsmen & 4 bowler (with one being Flintoff).

Athers has a point but IMO picking that formula would be England's best combination.

 

[Hanuma]

Vaughn is saying he'll be fit on the radio now.

I take it Collingwood would pay for his return? Imagining he was fit I'd say the Ashes tommorrow;

Tresco
Strauss
Vaughn
Cook
Pietersen
Bell
Flintoff
C.Read
M.Hoggard
S.Harmison
M.Panesar

Is it atall likely we'll only play 4 bowlers? We do only need to draw the series to retain the ashes.

 

[GIMH]

I'd bat Cook at 3 and Vaughan at 4....little harsh on Colly but in general can't find much fault with your line-up

 

[UncleTheOne]

I knew Vaughan had knee problems but I wasn't aware that he was going insane as well. He won't play in the Ashes.

Cue Vaughan to make a miraculous recovery and captain England down under.

 

[greg]

The fact is (and the Pakistan series has shown this perfectly) that if you have a good spinner in the team then you don't need 4 seam bowlers. If the England management can finally recognise this then virtually all their tricky selection questions disappear in an instant.

1) no problems with the length of the tail
2) no problems with the keeper - Read is comfortably good enough to bat at 8.
3) no over-reliance on Flintoff, giving England a settled shape regardless of his availabilities.

If by some miracle they have 4 test class pace bowlers available - then pick the three who will get the most out of the wicket. Rarely during their "five man attack" period did England need all five - but their presence meant that the decisions about who would perform did not have to be made.

With a spinner bowling 25-30 overs a day (in both innings) a side just cannot justify the presence of 4 pace bowlers. The extra batsman (who will enable the spinner to bowl with more attacking fields) is infinitely more useful.

 

[TT Boy]

Based on that this is my Australian 1st test XI:

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Jaques
Hussey
Watson
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Clark
McGrath

I’ll keep Damien Martyn in the team, did not fair too well in Bangladesh but he played a marvellous match winning knock at Jo’Burg. Also the fact that Australia should be aware that Hoggard does like a left hander and Martyn does at least add to the quota of right handers. However if Jaques form continues he be a tough man to leave out, other than that, I’m pretty much in agreement with you.

 

[aussie]

fully agree with your point greg, hopefully the England selectors think along the same lines when the time comes.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Martyn will start in Brisbane, barring injury. One can never be absolutely certain about our selectors behaviour, given their strange choices in recent times, but people are getting way ahead of themselves because there has been no international cricket for Australia in months. Jaques scoring big in England and for Australia "A" is very good and all, but Martyn is, barring a brief absence of two series, a solid member of the test side. He made his return in good fashion against South Africa and averaged 50+ with a match-winning century, and there's simply no reason to drop him.

There are, imo, only three places which are remotely debatable for the first test, and the 4th batting spot is pretty secure for at least a test or two.

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn/Hodge/Jaques
Hussey
Watson/Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie/Clark/MacGill
McGrath

I think the likely lineup for Brisbane is Martyn at 4, and Clarke at 6 with Gillespie at 10. Later in the series, and potentially even for the first test, Watson will come in at 6 and MacGill for Gillespie. The selectors usually pick the full quota of seamers for Brisbane, and I think it's fairly unlikely that they will play Watson with the seam attack, but it could go either way. It may well depend on ODI form in the Champions Trophy as to who starts at 6 when the seamers play. When MacGill is in the side, Watson will be also.

Jaques and Hodge will miss out, I think. Martyn may be dropped if he has a poor ODI run and a bad test or two in the Ashes, but I think regardless of what happens between now and then he will be given one more chance at 4. Gillespie is probably ahead of Clark right now, because of his experience in various conditions, and the fact that he was the pick of the seamers in Bangladesh. MacGill should play at least 2-3 tests in the Ashes.

 

[Nate]

Gillespie in England now = laughable. Clark HAS to be ahead of him. Even MacGill.

 

[andyc]

Gillespie in England now = laughable. Clark HAS to be ahead of him. Even MacGill.

Am inclined to agree with you there, would prefer to see Clark over Gillespie at the moment.

In terms of what Sean was saying about Clarke or Watson, I'd prefer to see Watson. In terms of first class averages, Watson has just passed 50, while Clarke is only 40.01. And, given that he can offer a decent fifth bowling option, I reckon he should get a run over him. Granted, Clarke is a much better player of spin, but given they're playing in Australia, with only Monty to contend with (will be decent, but it's not Kumble and Harbhajan in India), I don't see much reason why Clarke should be in over Watson.