Ponting is the biggest choker of them all !

[Salamuddin]

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/228073.html

I love Ricky's average when he is chasing 240+.......
Inzy in contrast is an absolute lion....what a performance from the master when he is under pressure.

 

[Jono]

I pointed this out a while ago actually.

All those comments regarding Tendulkar choking in run chases look silly when his average is quite acceptable chasing compared to other batsman. Ponting especially. No surprise that the 3 best batsman when chasing large totals are Dravid, Kallis and Inzy. If someone asked me which batsman have the best temperament when chasing in ODIs, those 3 would immediately come to mind.

Also interesting that since 2002 Tendulkar has still been very strong in ODIs, despite claims that he's 'past it' and on the decline. In tests he has declined, but in ODIs he hasn't. He's had a poor 2005 due to injury, but before that he's been just as good in ODIs as he has been in the past, whether it be setting targets or chasing.

 

[Salamuddin]

I pointed this out a while ago actually.

All those comments regarding Tendulkar choking in run chases look silly when his average is quite acceptable chasing compared to other batsman. Ponting especially. No surprise that the 3 best batsman when chasing large totals are Dravid, Kallis and Inzy. If someone asked me which batsman have the best temperament when chasing in ODIs, those 3 would immediately come to mind.

Also interesting that since 2002 Tendulkar has still been very strong in ODIs, despite claims that he's 'past it' and on the decline. In tests he has declined, but in ODIs he hasn't. He's had a poor 2005 due to injury, but before that he's been just as good in ODIs as he has been in the past, whether it be setting targets or chasing.

Indeed Jono. Sachin has not done as badly as I would have thought.
Can't wait to hear Slats4Ever's or Faaiap's excuses for Pretty Boy Ponting's performnace though...... should be a gem.

 

[Sanz]

We all saw who scored century in the WC Final and who choked.

 

[Buddhmaster]

We all saw who scored century in the WC Final and who choked.

Indeed

 

[DaBombayDuck]

We all saw who scored century in the WC Final and who choked.

Wow, that's really intelligent Sanz....take one performance and use that to determine whether a player is a choker or not.

And it's not even relevant to the argument at hand.....which is comparing different batsmen's records in run chases.
If Tendulkar's performance is poor during run chases over a number of matches, then what can you say about Ricky Ponting's record.
It does drop of alarmingly when confronted with a big total....at least construct some semblance of a logical argument before labelling a player a choker or whatever.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Indeed Jono. Sachin has not done as badly as I would have thought.
Can't wait to hear Slats4Ever's or Faaiap's excuses for Pretty Boy Ponting's performnace though...... should be a gem.

Umm, what?

 

[Jono]

You haven't been here long BombayDuck, so I'll let you off for you not knowing how Sanz argues his opinions, particularly on Sachin since 2002. I mean you give him evidence which suggests his criticism of Sachin as a chokser is wrong, and yet he replies with such a stupid post. Why he didn't reply with a decent argument against those stats is fairly obvious. He has nothing.

He claims he's a choker and has declined, being far away from the batsman he used to be. Part of that is true (especially in tests) but the choker part is quite obviously far off the mark. Sachin since 2002, as shown by that column, has performed perfectly acceptable when chasing, whether it be small or big totals. This perception that he fails when chasing is quite obviously false. The truth is he fails to carry the team over the line all the time, so if he scores but the team loses, its still his fault (See his century chasing a large total against Pakistan in a ODI back in 2004. He was blamed some for the loss, despite being the only batsman to score for India).

Its either that or Sanz doesn't know the difference between batting first and chasing.

 

[Salamuddin]

I'm not surprised that too many Aussies...haven't responded to this.

After all, it doesn't show Pretty Boy Ponting in too good a light...who would have thought...Ponting a CHOKER..


I've always felt he was overrated....a flat track bully and only good when the game is running in Australia's favour.
Inzy is a far better player.

 

[Jono]

I'm not surprised that too many Aussies...haven't responded to this.

After all, it doesn't show Pretty Boy Ponting in too good a light...who would have thought...Ponting a CHOKER..


I've always felt he was overrated....a flat track bully and only good when the game is running in Australia's favour.
Inzy is a far better player.

Sorry Salamuddin, I agreed with you in regards to the fact that Ponting has avoided criticism for his inability to perform well when chasing large totals yet Sachin has been labelled a choker despite outscoring Ponting in such situations, but I disagree with so much of that post. Particularly the claim that Ponting is a pretty boy. I mean Lee, Clarke I could understand, but Ponting? The fact that people have compared his looks to George W Bush would suggest he's far from that.

But seriously you're far off the mark when it comes to Ponting's batting ability. See Old Trafford 2005 and even yesterday at the MCG to see how good he is.

 

[SteveG]

Personally, Ponting is not my favourite cricketer, but I'm starting to thinking we should call these forums the "PontingBashingWeb Forums".

LOL theres more Ponting Bashers on here than Inzy's had roast dinners...and thats considerable.

 

[Deja moo]

It really isnt a surprise to those who actually watch the game.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It really isnt a surprise to those who actually watch the game.

Why isn't it a surprise? It's not as if Ponting never performs under pressure in other forms of the game, or that he is a poor ODI batsman.

 

[Deja moo]

Why isn't it a surprise? It's not as if Ponting never performs under pressure in other forms of the game, or that he is a poor ODI batsman.

Nah, hes brilliant when batting first, but the performances of his team mates tend to obscure the fact that he isnt the same when chasing. That said, his 156 at OT was a gem, and an unexpected one for me, frankly. It still doesnt take away from the fact that on the whole, he isnt a good chaser.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Nah, hes brilliant when batting first, but the performances of his team mates tend to obscure the fact that he isnt the same when chasing. That said, his 156 at OT was a gem, and an unexpected one for me, frankly. It still doesnt take away from the fact that on the whole, he isnt a good chaser.

?

Ponting in tests:
First innings: 3331 @ 69.40, 14 100s
Second innings: 2603 @ 55.38, 9 100s
Third innings: 1244 @ 41.48, 1 100
Fourth innings: 801 @ 50.06, 2 100s

Don't see where that indicates that he falls away when chasing, and in fact an average of 50 in the fourth innings is quite superb, and very few batsman manage such a feat. If he maintains that to 1,000 4th innings runs to get on the stat lists, he'll be right up there. The only question mark is in the number of runs, and that has more to do with the fact that he has few opportunities to bat in the second innings than anything else.

It's only in ODIs that his record when chasing big scores is poor, and I don't see how it's "expected", given that he's a superb player under pressure and a consistent performer in ODIs generally speaking.

 

[Deja moo]

?

Ponting in tests:
First innings: 3331 @ 69.40, 14 100s
Second innings: 2603 @ 55.38, 9 100s
Third innings: 1244 @ 41.48, 1 100
Fourth innings: 801 @ 50.06, 2 100s

Don't see where that indicates that he falls away when chasing, and in case an average of 50 in the fourth innings is quite superb, and very few batsman manage such a feat. If he maintains that to 1,000 4th innings runs to get on the stat lists, he'll be right up there.

It's only in ODIs that his record when chasing big scores is poor, and I don't see how it's "expected", given that he's a superb player under pressure and a consistent performer in ODIs generally speaking.

I'm not sure of those stats. I did those last year, and his 4th innings ones were significantly lower, unless hes managed to really pull up his socks recently (but then again, the only 4th innings' innings of note in that period has been his 156 IMO, so thats puzzling). I'll see if I can locate those posts.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I'm not sure of those stats. I did those last year, and his 4th innings ones were significantly lower, unless hes managed to really pull up his socks recently (but then again, the only 4th innings' innings of note in that period has been his 156 IMO, so thats puzzling). I'll see if I can locate those posts.

Pontings big scores in the fourth innings are the 156, and his unbeaten century to chase down that big South African score at Newlands. Don't think he's done much else recently.

 

[Deja moo]

These were his 4th innings stats as on 27/08/04:

Ponting 4th innings average : 35.91 (career ave:54.33) , 1x100 and 1x50 .HS: 100*

It'd be interesting to note that despite his proficiency in chasing in ODIs, Sachin too didnt have great 4th innings stats:

Sachin 4th innings average : 35.73 (career ave: 57 ?), 2x100s and 2x50s .HS:136 vs Pakistan.

Lara was marginally better:

Lara 4th innings average : 39.11 (career ave: 52.84) ,2x100s and 7x50s . HS: 153*

Kallis, Dravid had 4th innings averages of 50+ and Inzy 46, at that point in time.

 

[Deja moo]

Ah, now I see why its jumped upto 50, his 4th innings scores since then have been:

62*, 4*, 47*, 86*, 0, 156, 0*, 3.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

4th innings averages of 50+ are very rare, and I believe the only batsmen ever to manage them over large numbers of runs in the fourth innings are Gavaskar and Boycott, who obviously are two of the most technically correct batsmen ever seen. It's not a huge shock therefore that Dravid and Kallis are up there.

Certainly nothing wrong with Ponting's fourth innings record, by any standard.