Ponting is the biggest choker of them all !

[Deja moo]

4th innings averages of 50+ are very rare, and I believe the only batsmen ever to manage them over large numbers of runs in the fourth innings are Gavaskar and Boycott, who obviously are two of the most technically correct batsmen ever seen. It's not a huge shock therefore that Dravid and Kallis are up there.

Certainly nothing wrong with Ponting's fourth innings record, by any standard.

yeah, but its obviously been helped by a worthy 156, and quite a few not outs recently against Pakistan and against New Zealand on the flat pitches there were on offer this season.

Incidentally, just for academic purposes, Headley (89), Bradman (73), Gavaskar (58), Hobbs (57) managed over 50, with Greg Chappell at 49 and Viv at 47.

Dravid, Kallis and Ponting (49-50) among current players stand out.

Inzamams slipped down to 38 since then, and Sachin and Lara manage 34 and 37 respectively.

Steve Waugh managed just 25.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah, Steve Waugh's fourth innings record is one of the great mysteries of cricket for me. Such a great player under pressure, good enough to handle the greatest bowlers on the most difficult wickets early in tests, but never succeeded at the end of the match. I think part of it can be explained by his (relatively) weaker play of spin, but I am sure he failed against pace attacks in the final innings often as well.

 

[Deja moo]

Anyway, Faip, do you think pontings shocking record chasing 240+ totals in ODIs is because he doesnt have a clear-cut role in such circumstances ?

I mean, Dravid and Kallis have clearly marked themselves out as the batsmen who would anchor the innings in such situations, they have a defined role in the team. But when it comes to Australia chasing big totals, it seems like each and every batsman has a license to play destructor. There doesnt seem to be anyone marked out as the one who will hold fort at one end.

 

[social]

Anyway, Faip, do you think pontings shocking record chasing 240+ totals in ODIs is because he doesnt have a clear-cut role in such circumstances ?

I mean, Dravid and Kallis have clearly marked themselves out as the batsmen who would anchor the innings in such situations, they have a defined role in the team. But when it comes to Australia chasing big totals, it seems like each and every batsman has a license to play destructor. There doesnt seem to be anyone marked out as the one who will hold fort at one end.

Exactly right.

Plus Ponting unlike say Kallis doesnt appear to be overly concerned with his average.

 

[Slats4ever]

Anyway, Faip, do you think pontings shocking record chasing 240+ totals in ODIs is because he doesnt have a clear-cut role in such circumstances ?

I mean, Dravid and Kallis have clearly marked themselves out as the batsmen who would anchor the innings in such situations, they have a defined role in the team. But when it comes to Australia chasing big totals, it seems like each and every batsman has a license to play destructor. There doesnt seem to be anyone marked out as the one who will hold fort at one end.

interesting point and perhaps you have hit the nail on the head in trying to explain ponting's struggles in chases. I think the "lack of a clear cut role" hurt hayden as well when he played OD cricket. Australia's batsmans mentality of everyone being the destructor works the majority of the time, but if they're under the pump (chasing big scores) then it can get them into trouble. Hence the importance of Hussey in the batting line up. He has clearly followed on in the Bevan/Lehmann mould. I think that Hussey should be moved up the batting order in OD cricket to perhaps as high as 3, and take ponting down. This way if Hussey can continue to play as successfully as he does there's someone turning the strike over well and numbers 4/5/6/7 can really take to it...

 

[Blaze]

Ponting is a ********.

 

[Jono]

Plus Ponting unlike say Kallis doesnt appear to be overly concerned with his average.

Kallis is the only example one could use though. Inzy, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly and Lara don't have that reputation.

Particularly in the case of Tendulkar, Ganguly and Lara who go for their shots very early in ODIs just like Ponting.

I think it is possibly more a case of what Deja Moo said, but an average of 21 is extremely low and there is a large difference between that and everyone else listed there. I wonder what Gilly's average is.

 

[luckyeddie]

I love Ricky's average when he is chasing 240+.......
Inzy in contrast is an absolute lion....what a performance from the master when he is under pressure.

And you know why, don't you?

Inzy's sponsorship is measured in sausages.

 

[Salamuddin]

And you know why, don't you?

Inzy's sponsorship is measured in sausages.

Chapathi's and Rajmah actually

 

[Sanz]

You haven't been here long BombayDuck, so I'll let you off for you not knowing how Sanz argues his opinions, particularly on Sachin since 2002. I mean you give him evidence which suggests his criticism of Sachin as a chokser is wrong, and yet he replies with such a stupid post. Why he didn't reply with a decent argument against those stats is fairly obvious. He has nothing.

He claims he's a choker and has declined, being far away from the batsman he used to be. Part of that is true (especially in tests) but the choker part is quite obviously far off the mark. Sachin since 2002, as shown by that column, has performed perfectly acceptable when chasing, whether it be small or big totals. This perception that he fails when chasing is quite obviously false. The truth is he fails to carry the team over the line all the time, so if he scores but the team loses, its still his fault (See his century chasing a large total against Pakistan in a ODI back in 2004. He was blamed some for the loss, despite being the only batsman to score for India).

Its either that or Sanz doesn't know the difference between batting first and chasing.

The only evidence/argument you/Sachin Fans bring is - 'Dravid is also a Choker', 'Ponting is also a choker' etc. Well they may be but that doesn't mean Sachin isn't.

Ponting, in the world cup, scored a century in the finals. In the ashes he scored 156 in the 3rd test(4th inning) when no other player crossed 40...yet you come out and say he(Ponting) is a choker but SRT(post 2002) isn't. So much for you being fair in your arguments.

As for how I argue my points - You should look at how you have argued your points in this thread. I can bring you stats but you will ignore it carry on and on about how SRT isn't a choker because Ponting/Dravid are chokers as well :-

Anyways since you wanted stats, Here is one for example :-

Ponting in 4th innings - 50.06
SRT in 4th innings - 34.88

Since I argue my points about SRT's performance since 2002, so here it is their performance since 2002-01-01 :-

Ponting in 4th innings - 97.71 (2 100s and 3 50s - in 16 innings)
SRT in 4th innings - 40.50 (1 50 - in 8 innings)

In Finals in ODIs, Since 2002-01-01

SRT - 29.83
Ponting - 47.75

In ODI Finals while Chasing(since 2002) :-

SRT - 34.20
Ponting - 117.00

 

[Sanz]

Wow, that's really intelligent Sanz....take one performance and use that to determine whether a player is a choker or not.

One Performance ?? Since 2002 here are some finals where SRT has excelled :-

1.NW 2002 Final - 14
2. ICC KO trophy Semi Finals - 16
3. WC Final - 4
4. TVS Cup Final - 45
5. VB series Final 1 - 8
6. VB series Final 2 - 27

That's 6 out of 10, where 2 were washed out, rest of his scores 83 Vs. Kenya, 74 Vs. SL.

 

[Hit4Six]

One Performance ?? Since 2002 here are some finals where SRT has excelled :-

1.NW 2002 Final - 14
2. ICC KO trophy Semi Finals - 16
3. WC Final - 4
4. TVS Cup Final - 45
5. VB series Final 1 - 8
6. VB series Final 2 - 27

That's 6 out of 10, where 2 were washed out, rest of his scores 83 Vs. Kenya, 74 Vs. SL.

which batsmen are u a fan of then?

 

[honestbharani]

Why does Inzy average more than Punter in the chases?



Simple. He gets to have dinner.

 

[Sanz]

which batsmen are u a fan of then?

Inzamam Ul Haq.

 

[Buddhmaster]

How good was Punter on day one verse South Africa. Pollock, Ntini and Nel all in top form, but Punter took it to them and won. Best batsman in the world at the moment without a doubt.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Pretty Boy Ponting

Ooooh. He's dreamy....

 

[aussie]

Ponting is a ********.

Ok Blaze we get your not a fan of Ponting, let it go now please

 

[Sudeep]

I'm starting to really think what is the use of discussing who's a choker and who isn't.

Take Tendulkar for example. He's been accused of being a choker since 2002 by certain people. What about the World Cup then? India started horribly, but Sachin was consistent throughout, and played a significant part in India's making it to the final.

So what if Ponting fails while chasing? Is he the only one who has to chase? He's helped Australia thrash opponents by setting huge totals. The fact that even if he can't chase under pressure, but can set up big totals, even in pressure matches, should be even to have people stop complaining.

 

[social]

I'm starting to really think what is the use of discussing who's a choker and who isn't.

Take Tendulkar for example. He's been accused of being a choker since 2002 by certain people. What about the World Cup then? India started horribly, but Sachin was consistent throughout, and played a significant part in India's making it to the final.

So what if Ponting fails while chasing? Is he the only one who has to chase? He's helped Australia thrash opponents by setting huge totals. The fact that even if he can't chase under pressure, but can set up big totals, even in pressure matches, should be even to have people stop complaining.

And the fact that Ponting wouldve been the first batsman chosen for any world odi x1 for a no. of years now.

As far as chokes go, it's India's bowlers (2003 wc) and Pakistan's batsmen (1999 wc) tied for first with no point considering the rest because theyre so far in front.

Unfortunately, it's easier to take pot shots at Ponting and Tendulkar than admit to the inadequacies of "lesser mortals."

 

[Pratters]

As far as chokes go, it's India's bowlers (2003 wc)

Ah yes. But I really thought it was the captain's blunder to choose to field in the final given the cirumstances.