Players Whose Careers Ended Without Any Fanfare

[flibbertyjibber]

Virat kohli and rohit fatman sharma eating

FTFY

 

[MartinB]

I would be curious to see how having a great bowler on your team would affect a batsman’s stats. (I presume it would have a bigger effect on lesser batsmen)

WSC plays a significant part in the differences

In the case of Lillee that was the case. Border and Chappell averages where virtually the same.
Overall Australian top 6 averaged 42 when Lillee played and 34 when he didn't (similar to period after he retired). Other points:

• When Lillee played, Chappell batting average was 20% higher than the other Australian batsmen, when Lillee did not play Chappell was 60/70% higher.
• After Lillee (and Chappell) retired, Border kept scoring runs, the other batsmen fell away.

A second issue is the spinners

• At the start of Lillee's career, spinners did slightly worse than normal when he was playing
• In the second half spinners did a lot better. Below is a table of spinners for 1976/77 season -> 84

	lillee Played	no Lillee
B Yardley	24.04	42.09
RJ Bright	33.75	45.50
KJ O'Keeffe	30.50	101.66
JD Higgs	27.94	32.07
AR Border	32.56	40.62
T Hogan	31.85	60.37

 

[Coronis]

In the case of Lillee that was the case. Border and Chappell averages where virtually the same. But:

• When Lillee played, Chappell batting average was 20% higher than the other Australian batsmen, when Lillee did not play Chappell was 60/70% higher.
• After Lillee (and Chappell) retired, Border kept scoring runs, the other batsmen fell away.

A second issue is the spinners

• At the start of Lillee's career, spinners did slightly worse than normal when he plaid
• In the second half spinners did a lot better. Below is a table of spinners for 1976/77 season -> 84

	lillee Played	no Lillee
B Yardley	24.04	42.09
RJ Bright	33.75	45.50
KJ O'Keeffe	30.50	101.66
JD Higgs	27.94	32.07
AR Border	32.56	40.62
T Hogan	31.85	60.37

This makes sense re: spinners - you’d expect them to do much better when you have a great pacer to take on the top order

 

[MartinB]

It seems like throughout his career - even ignoring the WSC period - he missed most of the games on the spicier pitches, and because country pitches were treated more on an era basis than a per game basis it was over-penalising him for favourable pitches he didn't get to actually bowl on.

Money is the likely the reason. In the 70's, Australian Cricket mades its money from attendance at matches. They make lot more money from 5 day test than 3 day tests (Test Costs are fixed, extra days are pure profit). When Lillee was around, wickets need to be flat to make the Test last 5 days. A similar thin happened in the 2000's with McGrath, Warne

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I just checked and Lillee took a higher percentage of tailend wickets than Hoggard which may even make what I said not true anyway.

Ah man, this reminds me that a few years back the BBC ran a clickbait article proclaiming Hoggard England's best ever Test bowler. It turned out the sole criteria used for that analysis was "career batting average of batsman dismissed". So yeah, he should do great on that measure!

 

[Chin Music]

I am amused at some of the meme's that come on this board, but what is the thing with Lillee here, in the wider context? I know that there are question marks on him outside England/Aus/NZ in terms of either simply not playing or struggling there, but can you point to a more precise post explaining why you don't think Lillee was quite up with the greatest?

I will confess that Lillee is essentially before my time. I only have hazy memories of him bowling in the 81 Ashes when he was no longer as quick as in his pomp. I remember better, an ageing Jeff Thomson in 85 not being that successful but he was knocking on by that stage, especially for someone who nigh on solely relied on high pace.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ah man, this reminds me that a few years back the BBC ran a clickbait article proclaiming Hoggard England's best ever Test bowler. It turned out the sole criteria used for that analysis was "career batting average of batsman dismissed". So yeah, he should do great on that measure!

Oh wow that's great news. Standardised batting average of dismissed batsman will form part of the standardised wickets adjustment. Up and up for Hoggard!

 

[SteveNZ]

There's a fear that Kane Williamson might be part of this thread in future...I've heard from more than one place that there is a fear he's played his last Test. I don't believe it, but it'll only take another arm injury and surgery to make it so.

Past the next 12 months our Test calendar looks juicy, and he won't be interested in dining out on meaningless bi-lateral white ball games. It's just getting past that point

 

[ataraxia]

There's a fear that Kane Williamson might be part of this thread in future...I've heard from more than one place that there is a fear he's played his last Test. I don't believe it, but it'll only take another arm injury and surgery to make it so.

Past the next 12 months our Test calendar looks juicy, and he won't be interested in dining out on meaningless bi-lateral white ball games. It's just getting past that point

I'm less pessimistic about him than most. Unlike the rest of our aging batsmen, he's not past it – he's just injured lots. Logically I think he still has 3–4 years left in the tank, so I hope he continues. Crossing my fingers that if any big announcement is around the corner, it's an international white-ball retirement.

 

[Burgey]

I am amused at some of the meme's that come on this board, but what is the thing with Lillee here, in the wider context? I know that there are question marks on him outside England/Aus/NZ in terms of either simply not playing or struggling there, but can you point to a more precise post explaining why you don't think Lillee was quite up with the greatest?

I will confess that Lillee is essentially before my time. I only have hazy memories of him bowling in the 81 Ashes when he was no longer as quick as in his pomp. I remember better, an ageing Jeff Thomson in 85 not being that successful but he was knocking on by that stage, especially for someone who nigh on solely relied on high pace.

He is up there with the best. People just don’t rate him here because they think it will piss off Australian fans. They’re too stupid to realise we don’t have the same inferiority complexes as the lesser countries, so it doesnt bother us

 

[Chin Music]

He is up there with the best. People just don’t rate him here because they think it will piss off Australian fans. They’re too stupid to realise we don’t have the same inferiority complexes as the lesser countries, so it doesnt bother us

I was asking Prince EWS, who seems to prominently suggest it compared to others, and he's an Aussie.

Anyway, Rohit is left out of the last game and I'm wondering if that's his last ever test match already played. I bleeding well wouldn't pick him again if I was an Indian selector!

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He is up there with the best. People just don’t rate him here because they think it will piss off Australian fans. They’re too stupid to realise we don’t have the same inferiority complexes as the lesser countries, so it doesnt bother us

NZers feel the same way when posters here pretend they don't rate Chris Harris.

 

[Burgey]

I rate his fielding tbf