Players who didn't reach their full potential

[Richard]

Don't forget he is a stroke-maker who played the majority of his test career on sporting pitches at home as well.

Not really - he played on plenty of rank flatties at home. Only rarely did he genuinely make hay when he was confronted with a green deck.

 

[Richard]

1. Gibbs played in a stronger domestic structure and averaged the same as he did in test cricket there.
2. Gibbs played the majority of his domestic cricket on green top seamers and on quicker surfaces.
3. Ramprakash and Hick milked a lot of dibbly dobblers on the county circuit or bowlers who were so tired after continual amount of matches. They simply play more there.

And you thought I was ignorant... stereotyping entire domestic cricket systems might be nice to create the picture you want to create; the reality, however, is rather different. About the only thing you got right in that post was that South African domestic cricket is generally of a better quality than that over here.

Ramprakash and Hick were both far better batsmen, in terms of physical talent, than Gibbs; Gibbs however had a better mindset and thus was not affected by the step up in intensity as Hick and Ramprakash were.

 

[Sir Alex]

I think on a serious note, Brian Lara under achieved. The guy had ridiculous amount of talent packed into him. He had apparently little weakness against fast bowling or spin. Had temperament and stamina to bat till apocalypse. Possessed scant regard for reputations etc but somehow never put in his share of mind in it. Had he put in 50 per cent of effort and discipline as Sachin did, he'd be dominating the Bradmanosphere of cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

In the latter half of Lara's career he was pretty much all discipline, commitment and effort. It's the middle years that really tarnish his record. But by the time he retired he was as good as the best in the world, and better than almost all.

 

[Jono]

The great Dasa used to think Tendulkar did not achieve his potential.

 

[fredfertang]

There is always a temptation to say the likes of Lara and Tendulkar under achieve simply because when they are at their best its doesn't look like they will ever get out - human frailty gets 'em in the end

You could argue Bradman under achieved on the basis that he didn't usually bat well on sticky wickets, and its a reasonable point, if a tad churlish

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Definitely an argument that Viv Richards underachieved. The number of times that he swaggered out, chewing his gum, to a huge ovation, then was out for nothing. Certainly arrogance was always key to his game, and when it paid off it was was spectacular. But surely sometimes he could have benefited from a bit of humility and discipline. That's purely from an individual perspective, granted, as he was in such a strong team that it facilitated his arrogance. His failure wasn't nearly the same travesty as Lara's.

 

[SeamUp]

What about the father himself?


W.G. Grace
England

Full name William Gilbert Grace

Born July 18, 1848, Downend, Bristol

Died October 23, 1915, Mottingham, Kent (aged 67 years 97 days)

Major teams England, Gentlemen, Gloucestershire, London County, Marylebone Cricket Club, South of England

Also known as The Doctor, WG, Doc

Batting style Right-hand bat

Relation Brother - EM Grace, Brother - GF Grace, Cousin - WG Rees, Cousin - GHB Gilbert, Cousin - WL Rees, Cousin - WJ Pocock, Cousin - WR Gilbert, Son - WG Grace jnr, Son - CB Grace, Nephew - H Grace, Nephew - NV Grace
William Gilbert Grace
Batting and fielding averages
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 6s Ct St
Tests 22 36 2 1098 170 32.29 2 5 1 39 0
First-class 870 1478 104 54211 344 39.45 124 251 876 5

 

[Furball]

What about the father himself?


W.G. Grace
England

Full name William Gilbert Grace

Born July 18, 1848, Downend, Bristol

Died October 23, 1915, Mottingham, Kent (aged 67 years 97 days)

Major teams England, Gentlemen, Gloucestershire, London County, Marylebone Cricket Club, South of England

Also known as The Doctor, WG, Doc

Batting style Right-hand bat

Relation Brother - EM Grace, Brother - GF Grace, Cousin - WG Rees, Cousin - GHB Gilbert, Cousin - WL Rees, Cousin - WJ Pocock, Cousin - WR Gilbert, Son - WG Grace jnr, Son - CB Grace, Nephew - H Grace, Nephew - NV Grace
William Gilbert Grace
Batting and fielding averages
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 6s Ct St
Tests 22 36 2 1098 170 32.29 2 5 1 39 0
First-class 870 1478 104 54211 344 39.45 124 251 876 5

What's wrong with those averages?

You've got to look at the context of the day. For Grace to have scored as many runs as he did, on the pitches of the day, is an amazing feat.

I'm sure someone more familiar with Grace can post some of the stats about the volumes of runs he scored in comparison to everyone else.

 

[L Trumper]

What's wrong with those averages?

You've got to look at the context of the day. For Grace to have scored as many runs as he did, on the pitches of the day, is an amazing feat.

I'm sure someone more familiar with Grace can post some of the stats about the volumes of runs he scored in comparison to everyone else.

This is the stat I found most amazing. During 1871 season grace averaged 78 or 79. Next best is below 35. And most of good players in that season averaged around 20.

 

[fredfertang]

That in 1876, when he got his 50th century, no one else had scored more than 10, is a pretty good measure of his dominance over his peers

 

[Richard]

Yup Grace's achievements dwarf everyone's of the time by massive, massive margins. His career First-Class average doesn't give the slightest indication of his performances for the time that most cricketers play cricket in (he continued to play into his 60s) and Test cricket in his day was merely something of a sideshow so thus his Test record is fairly irrelevant.

Whether he could've done better is, I daresay, not something that anyone can possibly comment on.

 

[Richard]

There is always a temptation to say the likes of Lara and Tendulkar under achieve simply because when they are at their best its doesn't look like they will ever get out - human frailty gets 'em in the end

Yeah, it's difficult to put a ceiling on what the likes of Tendulkar and Lara can achieve really. Whatever they do it's always going to be possible they could've done better.