Personal Cricket Statutes

[Langeveldt]

Well you're not a proper Englishman either, see the link here?

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Yep, maybe if you have lived outside of England you can see around all the stuffy tradition that plagues English cricket still?? Although I guess Rik was very young though, so he wouldnt have been seeing a lot....

 

[Neil Pickup]

Like I said before, the logical solution is of course to reduce it, which is why it won't happen.

 

[age_master]

There are, in my view, three ODI-class players in that team and not (Mark Waugh, McGrath and Bevan - you might possibly be able to add Clarke as his List-A average is very good). I don't rate Lee or Bracken and I doubt I ever will do, I certainly don't rate MacGill, Slater's a half-decent one-day player at most, and Katich, Stephen Waugh, Clarke and Haddin are all either unproven or proven OK-but-not-brilliant in ODIs.
They would beat, if you ask me, a full-strength Zimbabwean side. No-one else. They would, I hope, comfortably beat the current New Zealand, Pakistan, England and West Indies sides. But not my best XIs for them.

umm im not really sure what exactly your talking about. lets have a look at some of these players

steve waugh - great batsman, good fielder and useful bowler

Mark Waugh - opened for Australia for a long time, class batsman and fielder

Macgill - 6 wickets @ 17.5 in ODIs, list A SR 28.5

Brett Lee - OSI 137 wickets @ 21.43 - SR just 27.4 world class feilder

McGrath - best pace bowler in the world

Bracken - 28 wickets @ 19.71 in ODI's 30.4 SR eco 3.88 - good OD bowler - unproven in the longer version

Clarke - ODI performance thus far - 327 runs @ 65, 8 wickets @ 24.5. Great OD batsman, fantastic fielder and descant part time bowler - just signed by Hampshire, should benifit alot from the experience

Katich - always been a class batsman, had a couple fo off seasons, hasn't looked back after being picked a 2nd time for the test side, scored a couple of hundreds in ING cup this season, started bowling more last season with good sucess

Bevan - rated the best ODI bat in the world and with good reason

Slater - never performed in ODI's or OD games domestically and doesn't play in a full strength NSW OD side (and hes not playing this weekend with S Waugh and Katich missing)

dunno how you can not rate some of these players, particularly in OD games - particularly as you 'know more than everyone else about cricket' a full strength NSW side is hell strong at the moment, and i also wanna see your best XI's for those countries


that and what marc said

 

[Rik]

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Yep, maybe if you have lived outside of England you can see around all the stuffy tradition that plagues English cricket still?? Although I guess Rik was very young though, so he wouldnt have been seeing a lot....

I was but 6 months old when I came over here! Only got into cricket 5 years after I moved up from London at the tender age of 11.

 

[Rik]

and i also wanna see your best XI's for those countries

Well I'd be interisted to see if NSW could beat India in India, or Pakistan, or New Zealand or or or...

I'll give you a few strongest XIs, just to try and prove to you that even at full strength, NSW are not as strong as most International Teams.

India:

S Ramesh
SS Das
R Dravid
S Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
V Sehwag
N Mongia (although they'll never pick him again so P Patel)
H Singh
A Kumble
Z Khan
J Srinath (before retirement) or A Nehra (who I would never pick in my life)

South Africa:

G Smith
HH Gibbs
G Kirsten
J Kallis
N Mackenzie
J Rudolf
M Boucher
SM Pollock
L Klusener
P Adams
M Ntini

England:

M Trescothick
M Vaughan
M Butcher
N Hussain
G Thorpe
A Flintoff
C Read
Giles (if it's a turning pitch)
A Caddick
RJ Kirtley
J Anderson

Pakistan:

S Anwar (if he's still around)
T Umar
Y Youhana
I Ul-Haq
Y Khan
Y Hameed
M Khan
A Razzak
S Mushtaq
W Younis
S Akhtar
M Sami

...

 

[Gaijin-san]

I think the "every dog has it's day" argument applies here.

 

[deeps]

There are, in my view, three ODI-class players in that team and not (Mark Waugh, McGrath and Bevan - you might possibly be able to add Clarke as his List-A average is very good). I don't rate Lee or Bracken and I doubt I ever will do, I certainly don't rate MacGill, Slater's a half-decent one-day player at most, and Katich, Stephen Waugh, Clarke and Haddin are all either unproven or proven OK-but-not-brilliant in ODIs.
They would beat, if you ask me, a full-strength Zimbabwean side. No-one else. They would, I hope, comfortably beat the current New Zealand, Pakistan, England and West Indies sides. But not my best XIs for them.

you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! plz tell me ur pretending to be dumb and ignorant! Lee has proven he is a world class ODI bowler...And Bracken's tour of india has shown he has potential (i'm not saying he's a world class bowler yet...but the guy is young,he WILL become a world class bowler...and he's not bad now either), I hate Macgill,but there's no denying he's a damn good bowler! Steven Waugh is unproven or proven OK??? Where have u been living for the last 16 years? His excellent economical bowling in 1986 won the world cup for australia...his brilliant 120* against SA in 99 won the world cup for australia again!He has won SOOO many matches for australia from nothing situations...He is a PROVEN match winner,and one of the BEST match winner's in the world...Katich is unproven on the international stage,but if you've ever seen him bat,you will see that he is a class act... Haddin is living in the shadow of Adam Gilchrist and Michael Clarke we all know is going 2 be a superstar

I think that you don't know much abou these players,and are just talking crap. I seriously doubt you've actually seen Katich,Haddin or even Bracken and Clarke at full flight... You are just going by figures, where katich and haddin have had very limited opportunity

this is a problem caused by the strength of the australian side...
Bracken,haddin,katich,swaugh,clarke,lee,macgill would all be walk up starts in the england team...theres' no denying it

You think slater was a half decent ODI batsman in his day...Funny that,coz the selectors considered him a test batsman, and he only ended up playing 42 ODI's!!!

Don't just join in any convo without actually knowing your stuff...It just makes u look ignorant!

 

[deeps]

and just for the record,slater avgd 24.07 at a very miserly SR of 60.40 with a highest score of 73

not very ODI level batting is it..

 

[Eclipse]

Richard again I hate to be on your case but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about with some of those players.

I dont beleve NSW would beat most International sides like some but you are seriously underating some players who you have hardly or never seen play in your life.

Bracken is ten time's the bowler he was last year he is accurate shown by his very good economy rate's and he has all off a sudden started to move the ball substantialy through the air somthing he was not doing at all last year. If you watched him in India or even followed him over the net there is no way you could not be impressed.

Wether you like Lee or not or think he deserves his wickets is irelevent because he take's them and taking wickets will win you game's.

I wont go on about any of the other players I just cant be stuffed.

 

[Mr. P]

Um, Richard to say it short and simple, if these guys have played international cricket for Australia surely they arent that bad?:rolleyes:

 

[iamdavid]

They would beat, if you ask me, a full-strength Zimbabwean side. No-one else.

Sorry mate but thats ludicrous , anyone of those players (perhaps with the exception of Slater for ODI's & Bevan for tests [although if Rikki Clarke can do it.....]) would make the England side in both forms of the game , same goes really for most other test nations (except Haddin in some cases).

Just wondering , have you ever actually seen Haddin , Clark , Nash , Nicholson , Thornely , etc play , you know I mean actually watching them rather than just looking up their averages , its a lot harded to critisize them then.

 

[marc71178]

Sorry mate but thats ludicrous , anyone of those players (perhaps with the exception of Slater for ODI's & Bevan for tests [although if Rikki Clarke can do it.....]) would make the England side in both forms of the game , same goes really for most other test nations (except Haddin in some cases).

:rolleyes: Here we go again!

No they would not make most sides, that myth has been mentioned before and shot down before.

 

[age_master]

and just for the record,slater avgd 24.07 at a very miserly SR of 60.40 with a highest score of 73

not very ODI level batting is it..

hehe vaughan only averages 25.94 - not too mch more atm (though he should get alot better)

 

[age_master]

on vaughan he has a little repetition in his life...


ODI Debut: England v Sri Lanka at Dambulla, 1st ODI, 2000/01
Latest ODI: England v Sri Lanka at Dambulla, 1st ODI, 2003/04

only made single figures both times and ENgland got beaten pretty well both times. ohh well better luck in a couple more years

 

[marc71178]

hehe vaughan only averages 25.94 - not too mch more atm (though he should get alot better)

His average is skewed because his first 6 matches were awful, and he has still only played about 30.

After those 6, his average is around 30, which isn't brilliant, but is a start, and his Test career started similarly...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Chris (#1 Allrounder ) Gayle averaged 28.45 in his first 39 ODI's. He scored only 71 more runs than Vaughan has in the same number of innings.

Furthermore he averaged only 18.5 with just 259 runs through his first 15. In Vaughan's first 15 he scored 262 runs at 20.15 per innings.

Food for thought.

 

[marc71178]

Interesting, but did he deserve that average at that stage, and what was his First Chance average?

That's far more important to know!

 

[Neil Pickup]

Hamish Marshall records his first ever Senior 100 in and ODI to further show the value of domestic stats.

 

[Richard]

Hamish Marshall records his first ever Senior 100 in and ODI to further show the value of domestic stats.

Personally I think it says far more about Pakistan's excuse for an attack. Shoaib Akhtar apart, it's a load of rubbish.

 

[Richard]

Interesting, but did he deserve that average at that stage, and what was his First Chance average?

That's far more important to know!

Those two comments mean exactly the same thing.
And even more important is was his domestic one-day average always as good as it is? If so, it suggests he was worth persevering with.
Another thing that needs to be considered, of course, is how difficult was batting in his early ODIs.