Peak steve smith vs peak tendulkar

[kyear2]

Its the classic anti-spin agenda thats very popular amongst certain members of the forum

There's absolutely no anti spin agenda.

Lillee and McGrath and definitely having a bigger impact in the first innings and even in the first half of the 2nd.

Not saying he's a non factor, but the key to the top order will be the opening bowlers.

Don't see how that's remotely controversial.

 

[kyear2]

I mean people will say they rank Warne above them, then constantly make derogatory remarks about his presence in the side and being an exploitable weakness because he’s a spinner.

Derogatory is a bit dramatic.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Wrist spin is good

Finger spin is bad

 

[kyear2]

top 6 pacers

The 3 spinners

Imran

literally 7 pacers who can all be put in any of the 5,040 possible orders and it will make sense and nobody will object [Lillee, Trueman, Donald, Lindwall, Holding, Garner, Wasim]

No arguments here

 

[kyear2]

Was he a fast bowler or spinner or did he do both?

It's claimed medium, not seen anything above military medium.

 

[kyear2]

There is a middle ground.

To one extent many here treat Warne and Murali as interchangeable with top pacers.

The other extent is to treat them as total liabilities.

Middle ground is to recognize that they have unique pluses and minuses, like being more deadly in 4th innings and less in first half of games, and may be more vulnerable against lineups of high quality spin players.

Exactly.

 

[kyear2]

people really forget this.

And it's the most critical aspect of his or anyone's game.

No flat era, no minnows in-between.

 

[kyear2]

And he didn't face them. I think we sometimes give him a bit too many era points, especially since he didn't faced the very challenge that made the 80s what they were.

It was his record against the bowlers that He faced that gave him the reputation that he has, not the perception that he faced his own team.

I swear sometimes.....

 

[kyear2]

kyear

I guess it was predictable.

You just make up stupid **** and shovel it out.

 

[kyear2]

He have said over 9000 times how hard the 80s were while talking about Viv.

Again, just making things up.

I said that he's the only ATG batsman who didn't play against any minnows or got to enjoy a flat pitches era.

I said he has an unparalleled record against all of the best bowlers of said era.


He didn't bat in the mid 20's through 40's, nor did he bat in the 2000's.

And yes, his era was tougher than those referenced eras, but to suggest that era points would be given based on his own attack is idiotic.

 

[kyear2]

But viv didn't face best attack- his own bowlers

Did Bradman face anything even remotely similar?

Hardly anyone did, so why is it held against only him?

 

[kyear2]

You exactly know what I mean and what Kyear says

No, because you literally pulled that out of your ass.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

It was his record against the bowlers that He faced that gave him the reputation that he has, not the perception that he faced his own team.

I swear sometimes.....

This is exactly. Because if you look at a Sachin or Lara neither one had a series vs the WWs or Donald where they averaged over 50. But Viv literally did that vs each and every atg bowler he faced at least once: Hadlee, Imran and Wasim, Lillee. Then unlike many later greats, he didn't face any minnows to boost his record.

His overall record though is a little underwhelming in terms of average and conversion but he ticks all the other boxes. I genuinely believe that apart from aging and having reflexes reduced, he lost interest if there wasn't a challenge. Not an excuse of course.

 

[kyear2]

Marshall and McGrath didn't face their best lineups. So therefore they can't be the two best bowlers by this logic.

Warne similarly as well.

And his was the lineup that plundered Murali in Australia.

 

[kyear2]

name me one other top 10 Batsmen post 1900 with the exception of maybe Hutton who didn't up his average by making wanker runs against minnow level lineups.

Please and thanks

 

[DrWolverine]

If Viv had the discipline and determinationof Sachin, he would have achieved far more.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, don't even get what you're trying to say here.

It's an overall net positive to his career, so don't see the need to add the caveats. All I'm saying.

Awww I tried to explain it like I would to a baby and you still didn't get it.

 

[kyear2]

If Viv had the discipline and determinationof Sachin, he would have achieved far more.

They had differing objectives and perspectives.

His job was to dominate, push the game, try to win.

Sachin's objective was scoring runs, breaking and setting records. That was his objective.

 

[kyear2]

Awww I tried to explain it like I would to a baby and you still didn't get it.

Becuse it's trying to have you cake and eat it too.

 

[DrWolverine]

It is unfair to say Sachin did not want to win.