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One Cloned Player
- Thread starter Right arm fast
- Start date
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
What does nationalities have to do with rating players?marc71178 said:
Swervy
International Captain
actaully it is all I have to say..I was in a rush this morning.chaminda_00 said:
The whole Flintoff vs Oram thing started because someone (a NZ'er) said that beyond all doubt Oram is better than Flintoff.
My response was that there is no way in the period of time that Oram has been playing tests has the Kiwi been close to being an allround force like Flintoff has.
oram started ok with the ball, but has badly tailed off, he has done pretty well with the bat, but not as good as Flintoff has in that time.
What Flintoff did in 1998 or whenever is not relevent to the debate..Flintoff recently (ie the last 2 years has been the dominant all rounder in the game..he has performed with the bat and with the ball pretty consistantly)..
and then we get onto ODI's...Flintoff has played 80, Oram 70
Orams all round figures dont come close...Flintoff averages about 35, with 3 hundreds and 13 half centuries, at a strike rate of 93..with the ball Flintoff averages under 24, an ecc rate of 4.20 and a SR of 34
Oram averages with the bat 17.60, with 3 half centuries with a SR of 75..with the ball he averages 28.6, has an ecc rate of 4.43 and a strike rate of 39...and lets not forget Flintoff has almost twice as many catches as well
I just cant see where the problem is...its blatently obvious who has been the player in the last 2 years.
No doubt if Flintoff doesnt hit a hundred vs Australia this summer,we will be hearing all sorts of stuff saying Oram must be better etc
Oram
Oram's Test stats are way better than Flintoff's still.
You can talk about your english way of only putting stats that he did good in (just like botham, who was so overrated, his test record was not much better than cairns, and yet they compare him to Imran) but The Fact is Oram has a better record in Test cricket.
Flintoff is the better odi allrounder.
You can talk about your english way of only putting stats that he did good in (just like botham, who was so overrated, his test record was not much better than cairns, and yet they compare him to Imran) but The Fact is Oram has a better record in Test cricket.
Flintoff is the better odi allrounder.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
stats stats stats!!!!psxpro said:
in this instance the stats mean nothing and are horribly misleading, you cannot seriously say that you would prefer to have oram over flintoff, orams stats may be better in tests, but flintoff is the much better player, there are times when you really have to ignore the statistics and focus on real life, this is one of those occasions.
Flitnoff may well continue the way he has, but he may not so you have to include whole carrers rather than just 2 years.
In that time Oram's records are slo very impressive.
England's top order may not do as badly as NZ's, but that brings me to another point, Oram has scored so many runs under more pressure when the top order has failed.
"flintoff has hit several Odi centuries"
Don't put a stat!
"and yet hes englands best bowler but yet has the highest average"
He is a very good bowler now, but over his carrer he was rubbish at the start, thats why its high.
But at the moment I'd still pick Oram over Flintoff in a test team.
Oram is clearly the better batsman imo. Flintoff is a better bowler but not by as much a margin as oram has in the batting.
In that time Oram's records are slo very impressive.
England's top order may not do as badly as NZ's, but that brings me to another point, Oram has scored so many runs under more pressure when the top order has failed.
"flintoff has hit several Odi centuries"
Don't put a stat!
"and yet hes englands best bowler but yet has the highest average"
He is a very good bowler now, but over his carrer he was rubbish at the start, thats why its high.
But at the moment I'd still pick Oram over Flintoff in a test team.
Oram is clearly the better batsman imo. Flintoff is a better bowler but not by as much a margin as oram has in the batting.
It isn't cricket if you think Flintoff is a better batsman than oram.
Oram took apart the Sa bowlers, Played allright Vs England, Played Well Vs pakistan and batted very well Vs Australia. He also did well in Turning Srilankan pitches.
What more can you ask of him?
Flintoff hasn't been as impressive with the bat and isnt anywhere as consistant as Oram. Also he bats under less pressure thanks to a very good top order. For NZ, oram has come in under pressur and scored all these runs. There is no doubt he is a better batsman than Flintoff.
Oram took apart the Sa bowlers, Played allright Vs England, Played Well Vs pakistan and batted very well Vs Australia. He also did well in Turning Srilankan pitches.
What more can you ask of him?
Flintoff hasn't been as impressive with the bat and isnt anywhere as consistant as Oram. Also he bats under less pressure thanks to a very good top order. For NZ, oram has come in under pressur and scored all these runs. There is no doubt he is a better batsman than Flintoff.
Neil Pickup
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Why does Oram have such a dismal ODI record, then?
Neil Pickup said:
Because he bats too low. He is the type of batsman, while he can be destructive, he needs time to play himself in, he usually comes in too late, whenver he has batted earlier or come in when there is time he has done better in odi's.
His bowling in odi's is pretty good.