One Cloned Player

[psxpro]

By that token how come you don't take out the figures against Bangladesh (as Flintoff hasn't played them) and also the figures against India (as Flintoff has never had the chance to bowl on the wickets produced for that series)?

By that token, why not increase oram's batting averages since he also batted in those pitches.

 

[marc71178]

I'm only pointing out how you ignored the bad stats for a reason, but didn't counter it be removing his only 2 good series figures.

 

[psxpro]

I'm only pointing out how you ignored the bad stats for a reason, but didn't counter it be removing his only 2 good series figures.

Even if you remove the bangladesh series his bowling would be pretty much equal to flintoffs

 

[Swervy]

I dont think Orams bowling come even close to Flintoffs

 

[marc71178]

Even if you remove the bangladesh series his bowling would be pretty much equal to flintoffs

Oh right, but you're happy to include that farcical series against India though...

 

[Kasper]

It'd have to be the great Brian Lara.

 

[Zinzan]

there are so many great players around worth considering.....

Gilchriist
Ponting
Cairns
Bravo
Lara
Tendulkar
Sehwag

to name a few

 

[psxpro]

I dont think Orams bowling come even close to Flintoffs

Just like flintoff;s batting doesn't even come close to Oram's.

 

[Swervy]

Just like flintoff;s batting doesn't even come close to Oram's.

and that is BS as well...look mate, you just look like some homer kid who cant see beyond the coastline of New Zealand..in the last 2 years (and thats all we can be concerned about,what relevence has before then got to do with NOW),Flintoff has done more in both forms of the game, both with bat and ball,just by watching the two of them play, its blatently obvious that Flintoff is the better batsman and bowler...and quite conveniently the figures back it up as well

 

[GladiatrsInBlue]

I would say

Sehwag and Dhoni

 

[Blaze]

I would say

Sehwag and Dhoni

What about Pathan?

Who is going to bowl for you?

 

[Zinzan]

and that is BS as well...look mate, you just look like some homer kid who cant see beyond the coastline of New Zealand..in the last 2 years (and thats all we can be concerned about,what relevence has before then got to do with NOW),Flintoff has done more in both forms of the game, both with bat and ball,just by watching the two of them play, its blatently obvious that Flintoff is the better batsman and bowler...and quite conveniently the figures back it up as well

Unlike psxpro, I will acknowledge Flintoff is the better "allrounder" of the two. But the main reason for me thinking that is because of the deterioration of Oram's test bowling after a good start to his career and the great recent bowling form of Flintoff.

Swervy, I don't know how you can so conclusively state its blatently obvious Flintoff is a better test batsmen than Oram?? Have you seen Oram bat?? He does ave around 44 in test cricket.

Otherwords It would be a debatable point as to who is the better "Test batsmen". You'll find some will argue one way of this one, and some the other.

So to just suggest it's Blantenly obvious to anyone who's watched the two that Flintoff is the better batsmen is just ignorance.

 

[Swervy]

Unlike psxpro, I will acknowledge Flintoff is the better "allrounder" of the two. But the main reason for me thinking that is because of the deterioration of Oram's test bowling after a good start to his career and the great recent bowling form of Flintoff.

Swervy, I don't know how you can so conclusively state its blatently obvious Flintoff is a better test batsmen than Oram?? Have you seen Oram bat?? He does ave around 44 in test cricket.

Otherwords It would be a debatable point as to who is the better "Test batsmen". You'll find some will argue one way of this one, and some the other.

So to just suggest it's Blantenly obvious to anyone who's watched the two that Flintoff is the better batsmen is just ignorance.

yeah I have watched Oram bat, and I dont think he is as good a batsman as Flintoff

 

[Zinzan]

yeah I have watched Oram bat, and I dont think he is as good a batsman as Flintoff

If we were comparing the test batting of say Matthew Sinclair and Rahul Dravid, I think it would be okay for someone to suggest its blantently obvious watching them bat that Dravid is clearly the better batsmen.

Not with the test batting of Oram Vs Flintoff though, especially when Oram has the better batting record in this case and is the only one of the two to have had success against the aussies. You should accept that unlike sinclair v Dravid, this is a debatable point.

 

[Zinzan]

By the way Swervy, whats your prediction for the ashes??

 

[Swervy]

If we were comparing the test batting of say Matthew Sinclair and Rahul Dravid, I think it would be okay for someone to suggest its blantently obvious watching them bat that Dravid is clearly the better batsmen.

Not with the test batting of Oram Vs Flintoff though, especially when Oram has the better batting record in this case and is the only one of the two to have had success against the aussies. You should accept that unlike sinclair v Dravid, this is a debatable point.

its debatable I guess, and maybe me using the word 'blatant' is a bit OTT, but in my opinion Flintoff is a superior batsman

 

[Swervy]

By the way Swervy, whats your prediction for the ashes??

3-1, poss 3-2 to Australia...a lot depends on what kind of summer weather wise is will be...

 

[Zinzan]

3-1, poss 3-2 to Australia...a lot depends on what kind of summer weather wise is will be...

Wow, you have more faith in England than I do. I'm predicting 4-0 or 4-1 to Aust, although i think it will be great for cricket if England can be competitive in the whole series.

Do you agree that for all those who argue for and against Flintoff, this will be the true test to where he stands??

 

[Swervy]

Wow, you have more faith in England than I do. I'm predicting 4-0 or 4-1 to Aust, although i think it will be great for cricket if England can be competitive in the whole series.

Do you agree that for all those who argue for and against Flintoff, this will be the true test to where he stands??

Up to a point..the obvious reaction if he doesnt do that well will be 'see, he isnt that good' but that would completely overlook how well he has done vs other teams. The key is how well he has developed against spin..he used to look very wooden vs good spin bowling, but I think he has improved a hell of a lot on that...of course he has never faced a leggie of the calibre of Warne before. He reminds me of Gilchrist in that vs spin, Gilly does seem vunerable early on, but if he bats for say 45 mins quietly then those issues go away. A clasic example is when Australia played in Sri lanka a bit ago,and the hundred Gilly scored....it just seemed that if he could face out the first few overs, he wouild get settled and score big..which he did in one of the tests...Thats the key for Flintoff I think.

If the aussie quick bowlers can get movement how ever slight, away from Flintoff early on, then Flintoff will struggle.

Bowling wise, I think Flintoff will be a success

 

[marc71178]

there are so many great players around worth considering.....

Gilchriist
Ponting
Cairns
Bravo
Lara
Tendulkar
Sehwag

to name a few

First 2 are pointless names because of their nationality.

Cairns is about thr only other one from Flintoff that would stand a chance because 11 Bravos wouldn't score enough runs and there's no way on Earth any of the last 3 would restrict Australia to a beatable total.