*Official* Yorkshire CCC racism crisis thread

[anil1405]

What level of bullying is acceptable? Not trying to be difficult but this is half the problem. The acceptance that some of this stuff is just 'boys being boys' or the classic, 'it was not serious it was just a bit of fun everybody does it.'

One of the uncomfortable truths is that much of this behaviour is seen by all of us, all the time, to a greater or lesser extent; and nobody did or does anything about it, even if it made us personally uncomfortable. And the action I generally see is either that of people nodding along in concern and then ignoring it. Or the other common reaction when people are called out of 'I don't really do that, or mean it that way, I`m actually a nice guy' combined with 'its all blown out of proportion and people need to not take offence so easily'.

In the end entire population groups, generations of people, even on a small scale-groups of friends, are being told that their behaviour is not acceptable and they are not the wonderful, good people they thought they were. Nobody wants to hear that, and will fight against changing at all costs; leading to long winded explanations, social discourse, and straw man arguments to explain away all levels of poor behaviour. We see it with ***ism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia... pick your -ism/phobia. This is the basic level of human discourse on any of these subjects.

Most sensible post in this thread. And a reality of the state of affairs well explained.

 

[Chubb]

I grew up in a very white part of the UK and pretty much everyone there has backward racial views. I’ve shared some of the things I witnessed around cricket before. This was hardly uncommon in normal life either. I was fortunate that my parents have relatively open minded views and a broader outlook.

• Players from my team taunting Asian players from a touring side by shouting “bang on, great bomb” after every ball
• Deliberate Beamer at an Asian batsman’s head
• Guy my age shouting “this is Devon, ****” after dismissing an Asian batsman
• Being called a “wog lover” because I liked Zimbabwe
• Regular casual anti Semitic and racial comments​

 

[kevinw]

I tend to think anyone who uses the wokeness or what used to be the PC gone mad argument for pretty basic requests for decency and equality just don't want to have to confront their own prejudice.

 

[Chubb]

Another thing I noticed when visiting family in Essex, which is much more diverse than Devon. There seemed to be white clubs and Asian clubs. Either there were no or very few Asians or a side was entirely Asian. This is not uncommon in NZ and Aus either in my experience.

 

[harsh.ag]

What level of bullying is acceptable? Not trying to be difficult but this is half the problem. The acceptance that some of this stuff is just 'boys being boys' or the classic, 'it was not serious it was just a bit of fun everybody does it.'

One of the uncomfortable truths is that much of this behaviour is seen by all of us, all the time, to a greater or lesser extent; and nobody did or does anything about it, even if it made us personally uncomfortable. And the action I generally see is either that of people nodding along in concern and then ignoring it. Or the other common reaction when people are called out of 'I don't really do that, or mean it that way, I`m actually a nice guy' combined with 'its all blown out of proportion and people need to not take offence so easily'.

In the end entire population groups, generations of people, even on a small scale-groups of friends, are being told that their behaviour is not acceptable and they are not the wonderful, good people they thought they were. Nobody wants to hear that, and will fight against changing at all costs; leading to long winded explanations, social discourse, and straw man arguments to explain away all levels of poor behaviour. We see it with ***ism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia... pick your -ism/phobia. This is the basic level of human discourse on any of these subjects.

There are different conversations required depending on age and maturity.

Kids tend to be highly insecure and try to become part of groups that will increase their status and that, by definition, comes with looking down on some other groups or individuals. Someone who is just trying to increase/preserve his status is not going to take the "don't bully those with lower status" well, since that was the whole point of all the effort invested in trying to be high status.

It's a hard problem and adults have to be wise and compassionate and firm for good changes to happen. It's not easy, though, since many adults also seem to not have grown up properly and are highly insecure themselves, invested in their own such games at a higher level. A good contribution of the woke movement would be to hopefully circumvent this terrible cycle.

 

[Gob]

What really stands out for me after reading all this is not just the racial abuse he copped but the extent of time in which he was receiving them. Its almost ten years and if I were him, I would have definitely looked to change counties at some point not that he should by any stretch. Also interesting to hear some one like Gillespie's thoughts on the team atmosphere.

Also don't buy for a moment that Root wasn't aware of any of this.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

What level of bullying is acceptable? Not trying to be difficult but this is half the problem. The acceptance that some of this stuff is just 'boys being boys' or the classic, 'it was not serious it was just a bit of fun everybody does it.'

One of the uncomfortable truths is that much of this behaviour is seen by all of us, all the time, to a greater or lesser extent; and nobody did or does anything about it, even if it made us personally uncomfortable. And the action I generally see is either that of people nodding along in concern and then ignoring it. Or the other common reaction when people are called out of 'I don't really do that, or mean it that way, I`m actually a nice guy' combined with 'its all blown out of proportion and people need to not take offence so easily'.

In the end entire population groups, generations of people, even on a small scale-groups of friends, are being told that their behaviour is not acceptable and they are not the wonderful, good people they thought they were. Nobody wants to hear that, and will fight against changing at all costs; leading to long winded explanations, social discourse, and straw man arguments to explain away all levels of poor behaviour. We see it with ***ism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia... pick your -ism/phobia. This is the basic level of human discourse on any of these subjects.

Yeah absolutely fair point, bad wording by me. Obviously no level of bullying is acceptable. I guess what I was trying to say is that the episodes described here (including the day to day language used) are so flagrant that you'd have hoped they'd overcome our natural inclination to look the other way when something makes us uncomfortable and that someone would have stepped in to (at least try and) stop it.

Like you say, one of the big take aways from this is how big a difference someone (anyone) could have made in Rafiq's life if they'd stood up for him. He spoke about how there were bullies and racists at the club but also plenty of 'good people' who wouldn't join in with the bullying themselves but overlooked it in others. It's got me reflecting on a few incidents in the workplace and even right back at school where I witnessed ***ist or racist behaviour that I wasn't ok with ...but I wasn't brave enough either to call it out to the perpetrators or to report them, and I don't feel good about that now. I really hope that if/when I see bullying/prejudiced behaviour in future I'll have the courage/decency to make a better decision.

It's easy when news like this breaks to tut and condemn those involved and we're (well I am) very quick to bring to mind other people who we can think of that are guilty of similar things. Essentially to see this as more proof that there are lots of bad people in the world out there. And the perpetrators of these kind of actions absolutely do deserve their just desserts and the victims deserve justice. But I think a story like this should make us look not only outwards at the villains of the piece but also to look inwardly at ourselves too, and reflect on ways where we need to change if we are going to live out the values we want to hold to.

 

[Burgey]

Will Quinn was Ballance's agent too, right? Maybe for other Yorkshire players too? Amy likelihood he'd have done the right thing?

I dunno but it’s a troubling development for CW, that’s for sure

 

[Burgey]

Root was basically a ring in for them. How he would know this stuff?

Except the poor bloke stated Root was there on nights out when these things were said.

which just shows, Warner was right all along tbh

 

[Burgey]

Given how much time England players spend with the England side I can actually believe that would be the case.

So Rafiq is lying in the bits about Root but not everyone else. Cool.

 

[Burgey]

Another thing I noticed when visiting family in Essex, which is much more diverse than Devon. There seemed to be white clubs and Asian clubs. Either there were no or very few Asians or a side was entirely Asian. This is not uncommon in NZ and Aus either in my experience.

yeah this is very much a thing in park cricket in western Sydney atm as the demographics in some suburbs have changed over the past couple of decades in particular. The divisions are starting to come down now though

 

[Son Of Coco]

Cannot imagine this at all. To be fair, I can't even imagine him having the social confidence to give a five minute team talk.

I was thinking the same thing. Surely being good at cricket doesn't buy him enough social capital to overcome his obvious shortcomings.

 

[andruid]

Gillespie has Indigenous Australian ancestry. Quite surprised that he accepted it, but it's ingrained in the culture, I guess.

Can't remember if I read it off a Guardian article, or heard it in Al Jazeera's coverage of his testimony to Parliament, but I got the impression that Rafiq initially returned to Yorkshire because the harassment had died out (or down) with Gillespie as head coach, but when Andrew Gale took over in 2016, the harassment came back with him

 

[Son Of Coco]

How do you know he’s wrong? I think Joe Root has questions to answer tbh

I couldn't agree more. It'll come as no surprise to you to discover that one anagram of Joseph Edward Root is 'The Fuhrer's Son'.

He should be called home from the Australian tour immediately.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think everyone in this thread has a duty to prove they are not racist.

I've read Mein Kampf 13 times and it still doesn't make sense.

Try reading it backwards.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Always struck me as a complete **** tbh. Must have known what was going on ffs. Yougrow up into these cultures, there’s no way of not knowing.

What is it with England captains and turning a blind eye to racism in the domestic game over there? Terrible

You could understand the bowlers not knowing. They're off the field every 4 overs to have a shower.

 

[Spark]

Re: Gillespie and Rafiq, this is probably relevant: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-to-go-anywhere-near-a-cricket-ground-1237253

 

[duffer]

Except the poor bloke stated Root was there on nights out when these things were said.

which just shows, Warner was right all along tbh

Further proof re: sarcasm not easy to convey on the internets

 

[Furball]

So Rafiq is lying in the bits about Root but not everyone else. Cool.

Not what I said but thanks for your usual crap take.

 

[Gob]

Except the poor bloke stated Root was there on nights out when these things were said.

which just shows, Warner was right all along tbh

Abraham lIncoln, martin luther king, david warner