***Official*** West Indies in Australia

[marc71178]

Nah, I can't agree with that. If Lee is going to continue to go through series averaging very high, you need to have someone in there who is going to take wickets. MacGill is a wicket taker, and I'm sure Pontiing would have loved to have him on the last day during the 5th test considering Lee was leaking runs and Tait only bowled 5 overs.

The one thing about MacGill is he only seems to perform when he's bowling with a very tight attack around him (ie McGrath, Gillespie and Warne)

 

[Adamc]

Can't see WI putting up a huge fight, unfortunately.

Collymore and (to a lesser extent) Collins are really the only bowlers capable of consistently posing a threat, though admittedly I haven't seen much of Powell. Bravo will play, I imagine, which leaves one or two bowling places to fill. They'll probably be tempted to play a 'fast' bowler, in either Edwards, Best, Powell, or Lawson. Too many options really, which isn't necessarily a good thing. Powell will probably play in the First Test though, given his five-fer in his last Test. Banks will likely play as a spinning option, giving WI an England-esque attack of four seamers (one an allrounder) and an offspinning allrounder. Not much hope that they'll have anywhere near the same level of success though.

Lara v McGrath/Warne will be interesting to watch, as always, and hopefully the rest of the batting lineup will put in a good performance. A lineup including Gayle, Lara, Sarwan and Chanderpaul apppears quite formidable really, but WI batting lineups seem to have a habit of managing less than the sum of their parts. I think Gayle and possibly Sarwan will be worked out quite quickly by McGrath though. WI batsmen generally struggle against spin as well, which increases the burden on Lara and Chanderpaul. I think there's a good chance that Chanderpaul will end the series with the most runs for WI, though I wouldn't mind of course if Lara has a spectacular series.

 

[greg]

I agree. We don't need a bowler who is only going to bowl well when conditions suit, we need a bowler for all occasions, and AFAIC Lee isn't that bowler. MacGill has a superior record to Lee and whether he be a spinner or quick it shouldn't matter, if we are going to play Watson we can think be more flexible with our bowling attacks chosen.

I'm a little unsure whether the implication of this is that MacGill is a bowler for all conditions or not

 

[Mister Wright]

I'm a little unsure whether the implication of this is that MacGill is a bowler for all conditions or not

He's worth a shot.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I agree. We don't need a bowler who is only going to bowl well when conditions suit, we need a bowler for all occasions, and AFAIC Lee isn't that bowler. MacGill has a superior record to Lee and whether he be a spinner or quick it shouldn't matter, if we are going to play Watson we can think be more flexible with our bowling attacks chosen.

That's fine, but he's done enough in recent ODIs and in The Ashes to be persisted with for a while longer. If he fails, it's worth looking at a replacement in tests, but his series certainly wasn't bad enough for him to be discarded entirely as it was his first back and he was far from the worst bowler. Macgill is barely younger than Warne, and he's not the future of the attack. With the decline of Kasprowicz and Gillespie, it is worthwhile to consider who will be bowling or Australia in the coming years, and Lee, Tait and Watson should all be looked at. Macgill can be played in Sydney, or if Australia are genuinely struggling with the two quicks through the summer.

 

[Mister Wright]

That's fine, but he's done enough in recent ODIs and in The Ashes to be persisted with for a while longer. If he fails, it's worth looking at a replacement in tests, but his series certainly wasn't bad enough for him to be discarded entirely as it was his first back and he was far from the worst bowler. Macgill is barely younger than Warne, and he's not the future of the attack. With the decline of Kasprowicz and Gillespie, it is worthwhile to consider who will be bowling or Australia in the coming years, and Lee, Tait and Watson should all be looked at. Macgill can be played in Sydney, or if Australia are genuinely struggling with the two quicks through the summer.

I'm sick of people relating ODI form to test form. It has been shown in the past, in particular with batsman that some perform better in one form then the other, why can't it be the same case with bowlers? The fact that Lee has struggled ever since his initial introduction to the side is very scary. Personally I don't think his Ashes series was all that convincing, when conditions were in his favour he looked threatening but when they weren't he reverted back to bowling bouncers (a familiar story).

 

[greg]

I'm sick of people relating ODI form to test form. It has been shown in the past, in particular with batsman that some perform better in one form then the other, why can't it be the same case with bowlers? The fact that Lee has struggled ever since his initial introduction to the side is very scary. Personally I don't think his Ashes series was all that convincing, when conditions were in his favour he looked threatening but when they weren't he reverted back to bowling bouncers (a familiar story).

I do wonder how much is Lee and how much is Ponting not knowing how to captain him and use him properly (not something, obviously, that is necessarily going to change if Ponting remains captain).

I have often thought that a significant factor in the decline of English spin bowling is that there are very few English or county captains who know anything about how to use a spinner. Unless the player is so good as to be able to dictate most of these things himself (a la Warne) their development will often be stunted. It may be that a similar thing is true of fast bowlers.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I'm sick of people relating ODI form to test form. It has been shown in the past, in particular with batsman that some perform better in one form then the other, why can't it be the same case with bowlers? The fact that Lee has struggled ever since his initial introduction to the side is very scary. Personally I don't think his Ashes series was all that convincing, when conditions were in his favour he looked threatening but when they weren't he reverted back to bowling bouncers (a familiar story).

Of course it can be the same for bowlers, but ODIs and tests have enough in common that if a bowler who has bowled in tests before is dominant in ODIs it obviously impacts their chances for selection. Symonds got selected for the test team based on ODI form, as did Clarke.

Anyway, Lee's Ashes series wasn't "convincing" as such, but it was solid enough. He had a poor final test, but before that he was averaging in the low 30s with 19 wickets in 4 tests, which isn't exactly shocking. It certainly doesn't warrant being dropped when two bowlers have already been dropped due to poor form.

 

[Mister Wright]

Of course it can be the same for bowlers, but ODIs and tests have enough in common that if a bowler who has bowled in tests before is dominant in ODIs it obviously impacts their chances for selection. Symonds got selected for the test team based on ODI form, as did Clarke.

Anyway, Lee's Ashes series wasn't "convincing" as such, but it was solid enough. He had a poor final test, but before that he was averaging in the low 30s with 19 wickets in 4 tests, which isn't exactly shocking. It certainly doesn't warrant being dropped when two bowlers have already been dropped due to poor form.

I agree that seeing how a player performs in ODI cricket can be some sort of guide to test cricket, but when a player has a tremendous record in ODI and a (let's be honest) terrible record in tests, it suggests something. It is a bit different when a player has been playing international cricket for so long and shown trends to a player forcing their way into a side.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I agree that seeing how a player performs in ODI cricket can be some sort of guide to test cricket, but when a player has a tremendous record in ODI and a (let's be honest) terrible record in tests, it suggests something. It is a bit different when a player has been playing international cricket for so long and shown trends to a player forcing their way into a side.

Lee is also an exceptional case because he almost never plays first class cricket. He has no way to force his way into the team aside from ODIs. If he wasn't constantly touring with Australia or 12th man at home and he could play for NSW and struggled, he'd be far less likely to get back into the team based on ODI performances, but he doesn't so he can only be judged on how he plays on ODIs and how he goes in tour matches and, probably most importantly, in training sessions with the team, net bowling etc, none of which we see as fans.

 

[aussie]

mate grooming watson as an allrounder u gotts be joking odi bolwing average of 45 after a hell of a lot of matches he couldnt run through any batting lineup, what we need is someone who can win a game with both bat and ball for you like freddie and if we look at our first class system there isnt that many of those players comeing through so australia is in trouble.
Also as captain of my team i and a seamer i tell all my players to watch correy collymore and his beutiful seam position he is a poor mans mcgrath how rapid was he in his early days before all his stress fractures really nippy he would have been one of the greats if he still ahd that extra pace he is a workhorse and will bowl all day if he isnt on tour west indies dun have a chnace of drawing a test because all teh other seamers will leak a hell of a lot of run except if pedro can curve the ball back in to the right handers heel be a handful. My teams for the games.

Aus
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Clark
Gilchrist
Symonds( its not gonna happen aussie selectors will go for watson)
Warne
Lee
Bracken
Hogg(bit of variety he scored 70 in a onedayer against england first class batting average of 29 left arm chinamen from hogg is played poorly by the windies and england underrated cricketer) left arm swing bowler in bracken great idea

Windies

Hinds
Gayle
Sarwan
Lara
Chanderpaul
Ramdin
Bravo
Banks
Collins
Edwards
Collymore
Lawson, Devon Smith 12th man u can include them if the situation suits

good grief its been painful defending Watson on these frums but here we go again, so frickin what if he averages 45 with the ball in ODI's to date their is definate potential in his bowling, his batting is his strong point. Its not like Flintoff & Kallis were running through sides at the same age with the ball., Watson has a better FC record than either of them at this stage of their career's, all the bloke needs is exposure at the highest level & he'll be ok.

For the life of me i dont know how you can have Hogg in the test side & have Bracken & no McGrath

For the windies i definately think Devon Smith should be opening, he's got the technique to cope with top class bowling better than Hinds, Banks wont trouble Australia at all, WI are better of playing 3 seamer with Bravo & Gayle spinning it since he has proven to be more effective than Banks in tests...

 

[roseboy64]

I don't think Banks will pose much of a threat.Don't really fancy Smith but if goes good in the President's Cup then maybe.Much better to go with :

Gayle
Hinds/Smith
Sarwan
Lara
Chanderpaul
Ramdin
Bravo
Edwards
Collymore
Collins
Lawson????

Lawson has had surgery on his ankle so he's a doubt.

 

[tooextracool]

West Indies:

Gayle
Dev Smith
Sarwan
Lara
Chanderpaul
Hinds
Bravo
Ramdin
Collins
Edwards
Collymore/Best or Lawson

how many times does hinds have to be given a chance and fail miserable for people to realise that hes just not good enough? i'd much rather have narsingh deonarine in there instead.

 

[tooextracool]

I don't think Banks will pose much of a threat.Don't really fancy Smith but if goes good in the President's Cup then maybe.Much better to go with :

Gayle
Hinds/Smith
Sarwan
Lara
Chanderpaul
Ramdin
Bravo
Edwards
Collymore
Collins
Lawson????

Lawson has had surgery on his ankle so he's a doubt.

darren powell is a far better bet than edwards and lawson if you ask me.

 

[Woody_cloudofsm]

sorry mate i forgot to say that side would be if mcgrath wasnt playing if he would be playing id put him in for sure just u never know how long he will play

 

[greg]

darren powell is a far better bet than edwards and lawson if you ask me.

Personally I think Lawson has shown himself to be a far greater threat, now that he has been given the all clear to throw the ball with impunity.

 

[Craig]

And no Liam thus far...

 

[roseboy64]

darren powell is a far better bet than edwards and lawson if you ask me.

Not really. Lawson if given the go ahead can destroy a lineup even Australia's has he proved not too long ago picking up a hattrick and 7 wicket haul in an innings. Edwards looked pretty good against Pakistan. I do think though that Gareth Breese should be the first choice spinner if necessary. None of the others seem capable enough yet to be a threat and he provides some much needed lower order batting.

 

[roseboy64]

And no Liam thus far...

That is strange.

 

[aussie]

how many times does hinds have to be given a chance and fail miserable for people to realise that hes just not good enough? i'd much rather have narsingh deonarine in there instead.

not that he's failed miserably its just that he's been so inconsitent, take for example recently he scored that big double hundred vs SA then failed throughout the series.....