***Official*** West Indies in Australia

[chalky]

I don't really think you can say that as you haven't seen everyone - I'll give you they're the best pace and spin bowlers I've seen though.

I'd rather 4 very good bowlers who compliment each other and 1 'useful bowler' over 2 great ones and 2 naff ones.

I think their records and longevity in a batsmen friendly era match with any one elses in history.

On the other point we are just gonna have to agree to dissagree.

 

[greg]

I think their records and longevity in a batsmen friendly era match with any one elses in history.

On the other point we are just gonna have to agree to dissagree.

It was only a batsman friendly era in matches where they weren't playing!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I agree I think the England attack is outstanding - because they all know their roles and perform them well. Also when one guy is a bit below form the others lift their game to compensate. However in McGrath & Warne (as mutch as it pains me to say it) Australia have the greatest quick and spin bowlers ever to play the game IMHO. The only question I have about them now is Mcgrath's fitness - I don't think he will ever be 100% fit again.

The problem is that you're not going to win series on the back of two bowlers. You may win some Tests, but you can't have a quality side if the weak links are as weak as those in the current Australia side.

The English attack may not have any great bowlers in it (yet), but the way they work together, it produces a product that is marginally better than the next best thing, which is undoubtedly the McGrath-Warne show. As far as quality attacks go, though, spare a thought for South Africa. Andre Nel is a quality young bowler, and Pollock and Ntini are outstanding when they're bowling well.

 

[Eclipse]

ponting was most definetly not out of form. he averaged 39 yes,which isnt poor by any means, but its still considerably worse than his career average.

well he wasn't in run scoring form.. if you know what i mean..

Like he threw his wickets away a few times when he looked pretty good.. example forcing a shot off the backfoot from flintoff trying a bit hard for quick runs in the 5th test when he was looking good, that run out, unlucky to get out to Giles when he was looking great..

 

[tooextracool]

"Excellent"...

he wasnt even excellent. he was "acceptable"

 

[tooextracool]

Two men do not comprise an attack. None of Gough/Caddick/Headley were great, nor did they pose a "great" attack in combination. McMillan? Now you're just being ridiculous.

Firstly the question was, how many good/great pace attacks has ponting played against.
considering that most bowling attacks have 3 fast bowlers and 1 spinner i'd think having 2 very good pace bowlers would make an attack extremely good, but when 2 of them are all time greats, as was the case in pollock/donald and ambrose/walsh id think thats as good as any pace attack can possibly get. unless of course you believe that a great pace attack must consist of 4 great pace bowlers, which has happened a whole 1 time in cricketing history.
and as far as gough, caddick and headley were concerned, no none of them were great. but an attack is only as good as the conditions allows them to be and in the conditions in which they bowled on in 1997, i'd say they were an extremely good attack that would test any player no matter how good he is.
on mcmillan, i simply pointed him out because he was a fairly decent bowler, and having him as a first change bowler is extremely handy, especially if you have pollock and donald opening.

 

[steds]

gough,caddick, & headley in 97

 

[tooextracool]

And hence they aren't great. Two men do not make an attack.

no but 2 great pace bowlers makes a great pace bowling attack, considering we are talking about ponting vs quality pace bowling.
at no point in time have australia had 3 great pace bowlers in the side at the same time, therefore should we concede that the aussie pace attack was not great?

 

[tooextracool]

Hoggard when conditions don't suit keeps it tight

have you ever seen hoggard bowl before? even in the ashes he was absolute cannon fodder in the first 3 test matches.

 

[tooextracool]

well he wasn't in run scoring form.. if you know what i mean..

Like he threw his wickets away a few times when he looked pretty good.. example forcing a shot off the backfoot from flintoff trying a bit hard for quick runs in the 5th test when he was looking good, that run out, unlucky to get out to Giles when he was looking great..

that is the way he plays and the only reason he was made to struggle was because england frustrated him with quality bowling.

 

[tooextracool]

did you even watch that series? theres a reason why we nearly won you know. gough in his prime, caddick with the ball moving about off the seam and in the air and headly in the same conditions is a very very good combination to have.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Despite the fact that we got outplayed in 4 and a half of the Tests.

 

[tooextracool]

Despite the fact that we got outplayed in 4 and a half of the Tests.

and whos fault is it if atherton cant score against mcgrath or butcher is complete rubbish? or that players like mark ealham get picked?
not to mention that not too many quality bowling attacks would be able to outbowl mcgrath,gillespie,kaspa and warne when they're bowling at their best.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I'm not having a go at Gough, Caddick, and Headley, but we didn't 'nearly win' when we got outplayed for 4 and a half of the Tests.

 

[Tom Halsey]

have you ever seen hoggard bowl before? even in the ashes he was absolute cannon fodder in the first 3 test matches.

Considering modern rates of scoring, he was reasonably tight - he didn't go for 5 an over or anything.

 

[tooextracool]

I'm not having a go at Gough, Caddick, and Headley, but we didn't 'nearly win' when we got outplayed for 4 and a half of the Tests.

firstly i dont think we were outplayed in the last test, it was anyones game throughout the test. nor do i think we got outplayed in the 2nd test when the bowling conditions were so completely loaded against us in the first innings.

 

[tooextracool]

Considering modern rates of scoring, he was reasonably tight - he didn't go for 5 an over or anything.

because so many bowlers go at 5 an over in test matches right? well theres watson, kallis and then a few other rubbish bowlers. if you keep it tight, you should generally go at less than 3 an over, with a few exceptions here and there, not at 4+ an over that hoggard usually goes at. infact if you look at hoggards performances in those first 3 tests, he went at 5+ an over in 3 out of 6 innings. well done to him on keeping it tight.

 

[Tom Halsey]

firstly i dont think we were outplayed in the last test, it was anyones game throughout the test. nor do i think we got outplayed in the 2nd test when the bowling conditions were so completely loaded against us in the first innings.

It was helpful for bowling, yes, but we still couldn't play McGrath, and 77 all out on any pitch is bad.

Last Test we were definately outplayed for half of it - we did very well to come back though, not denying that.

 

[Tom Halsey]

because so many bowlers go at 5 an over in test matches right? well theres watson, kallis and then a few other rubbish bowlers. if you keep it tight, you should generally go at less than 3 an over, with a few exceptions here and there, not at 4+ an over that hoggard usually goes at. infact if you look at hoggards performances in those first 3 tests, he went at 5+ an over in 3 out of 6 innings. well done to him on keeping it tight.

What were his overall figures for those first 3 Tests?

 

[tooextracool]

It was helpful for bowling, yes, but we still couldn't play McGrath, and 77 all out on any pitch is bad..

how many people can play mcgrath when hes bowling leg spinners at 85 mph?

Last Test we were definately outplayed for half of it - we did very well to come back though, not denying that.

a 40 run lead is not really being outplayed. australia may have had the upper hand, but they certainly didnt outplay us. and it would have helped if either one of gough or headley actually played in that game.