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*Official* Warm up Matches Discussion

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
True, Bairstow doesn't convince me at all yet, Compton has done a lot more than him to deserve a place in the side.
Compton has responded excellently this last week or so, and yes Bairstow has not convinced yet, but I still don't think it is clear cut as you make out. Compton may have two tons but Bairstow did make two very impressive scores against a better attack last year. His tests in the winter came in very difficult circumstances and then he was the better of the two in the New Zealand tests just gone.

Compton obviously has scored a massive amount of county runs and deserved his chance but Bairstow's record for Yorkshire has continued to be very good, it is a shame that he spends so much of the time not playing ODIs rather than playing county cricket.
 

Spikey

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So if Bird stays fit then Harris has to miss out surely seeing how they can't risk having both guys in the XI? Pattinson, Starc (variety), Bird and Lyon would be good.

Edit: Unless Harris' isn't a big liability fitness-wise all of a sudden.
yeah i find it hard to believe they'll play both of bird and harris

i would play them both though:devil2:
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
Compton has responded excellently this last week or so, and yes Bairstow has not convinced yet, but I still don't think it is clear cut as you make out. Compton may have two tons but Bairstow did make two very impressive scores against a better attack last year. His tests in the winter came in very difficult circumstances and then he was the better of the two in the New Zealand tests just gone.

Compton obviously has scored a massive amount of county runs and deserved his chance but Bairstow's record for Yorkshire has continued to be very good, it is a shame that he spends so much of the time not playing ODIs rather than playing county cricket.
I would have sticked with Compton but also I thought it was pretty much a 50/50 call and so I wasn't worried either way.

Compton to me basically choked in the home NZ series. He could see the home ashes coming up- the biggest series he would ever play- and he was just frozen with fear. Didn't help the press speculation about his place but that is part of international cricket.

People talk about his two centuries and yes they were good innings but he still only averages 31.93 @ sr 34.68. Not exactly the most compelling of stats and not a clear there is no way he should be dropped stats.

It is true that neither Root or Bairstow have convinced but I'd guess that the selectors and coach/captain have probably made the decision that far less likely to choke or freeze and will just play the game ahead of them whatever their technical faults during the ashes. With Bairstow and Root you feel like they are young and there is a relative lack of fear of failure. With Compton it was the opposite mentality coming from being that bit older and more intense.

The current team is pretty experienced and they probably think they can afford to blood a couple of younger players who could be mainstays of the team for the next 10-15 years. Whilst in the shortterm Bairstow/ Root > Compton is probably only neutral, the long term effect should be positive. With a few of the batsmen the wrong side of 30, if they aren't convinced by Compton it doesn't make much sense to persevere with him. It's harsh but you've gotta say the captain/coach are in a better position that ourselves to judge and make that decision.
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
I've pretty much mangled that argument.

You could say Jonny B and JR are better for a laugh than Compton and gets the nod. The Steve Smith circa 2010/11 argument

 

Cooky Monster

U19 12th Man
Nick Compton believes he has not been given a chance by the England selectors after being dropped for their warm-up match against Essex.

The opener gave a timely reminder of his talents scoring 79 for Worcestershire against Australia.

But the South Africa-born batsman said: "I don't feel that I had a fair crack of the whip.

"I don't know where things stand to be honest. I got told I had been dropped. Your guess is as good as mine."

From the BBC - BBC Sport - Ashes 2013: England opener Nick Compton unhappy with selectors


Flower has just put it to bed aswell, basically if Cook (god forbid) or Root get injured he is next in line but if a middle order bat gets injured hes not guaranteed to get in...

Who would bat 5/6 if Bell or Bairstow got injured or Bairstow has 3 dud tests?, surely not Ravi, can't see Morgan or Taylor either although for me Taylor was treated unfairly and should of been given more of a chance.
 

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
If a middle order batsman gets injured then they can just plant Compton at 4 or 5 (he was a makeshift opener for England anyway) or stick Root back into the middle order and have Compton and Cook open.
 

Cooky Monster

U19 12th Man
I would have sticked with Compton but also I thought it was pretty much a 50/50 call and so I wasn't worried either way.

Compton to me basically choked in the home NZ series. He could see the home ashes coming up- the biggest series he would ever play- and he was just frozen with fear. Didn't help the press speculation about his place but that is part of international cricket.

People talk about his two centuries and yes they were good innings but he still only averages 31.93 @ sr 34.68. Not exactly the most compelling of stats and not a clear there is no way he should be dropped stats.

It is true that neither Root or Bairstow have convinced but I'd guess that the selectors and coach/captain have probably made the decision that far less likely to choke or freeze and will just play the game ahead of them whatever their technical faults during the ashes. With Bairstow and Root you feel like they are young and there is a relative lack of fear of failure. With Compton it was the opposite mentality coming from being that bit older and more intense.

The current team is pretty experienced and they probably think they can afford to blood a couple of younger players who could be mainstays of the team for the next 10-15 years. Whilst in the shortterm Bairstow/ Root > Compton is probably only neutral, the long term effect should be positive. With a few of the batsmen the wrong side of 30, if they aren't convinced by Compton it doesn't make much sense to persevere with him. It's harsh but you've gotta say the captain/coach are in a better position that ourselves to judge and make that decision.
Good post...

Comptons average could easily go up with a couple of good knocks as Roots has recently, sample size still to small, if after 20 odd tests hes still around that average then fair enough.

Still can't get my head round him choking his place away after the success he had in NZ, you would think the opposite would happen and he would have more confidence, have to question the man management of him, he should of been told at the start of our summer to chill as his Ashes spot for the first couple of tests (minimum) was secure, im sure that would of been a big help to him, looks like regardless of what he done in NZ the management didn't fancy him.
 
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LegionOfBrad

International Debutant
Compton will almost certainly come in first drop if anyone goes down. They're not going to blood anyone new so its either him Taylor or Ravi.

I have a feeling that one England batsmen isn't going to make it threw the series so i think he will probably get a bat.
 
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Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah I think the performance against New Zealand (especially that second test) had a pretty big influence.
 

Cooky Monster

U19 12th Man
If a middle order batsman gets injured then they can just plant Compton at 4 or 5 (he was a makeshift opener for England anyway) or stick Root back into the middle order and have Compton and Cook open.
From what Flower has said its opener or nothing so definately your second option.

BBC Sport - Ashes 2013: 'Hardened' England ready for Australia

Team director Andy Flower says England are "match-hardened" for the Ashes after Graeme Swann took five wickets in a win over Essex.

England completed a 228-run win over Essex on Wednesday in their final match before the first Test against Australia begins on 10 July.

"This bunch of cricketers have fought a lot of campaigns and won a lot together," said Flower.

"They are match-hardened - that should give them a lot of confidence."

England bowled the county side out for 186 on the final afternoon at Chelmsford, with Swann taking 5-58.

Earlier in the four-day match, the spinner had been struck on the arm while batting by Essex paceman Tymal Mills.

X-rays revealed he had suffered only bruising, and the Nottinghamshire man was able to bowl 20.3 overs on the final day.

"There were great concerns about Swann, we thought he might have cracked his ulna [elbow bone]," said Zimbabwean Flower. "It would have been a serious blow.

"It was important for him to get those overs done and to show that sort of quality."

Durham pace bowler Graham Onions also weighed in with four wickets, but would have to get past Steven Finn and Tim Bresnan in order to earn a place in the England side for the Trent Bridge Test.

Flower said he was already clear which players would make up both the squad and the final team for the first Ashes encounter.

"We were pretty clear before this game about what our squad would be and what our XI will be," he said.

However, England do have fitness concerns over Stuart Broad, who missed the game against Essex with a right shoulder injury which has been treated with a cortisone injection.

The Nottinghamshire all-rounder bowled on the outfield during lunch on the final day at Chelmsford.

"Broad should be OK," said Flower, who took charge of the England team in 2009. "That was his first effort at bowling and I was pretty surprised.

"I anticipate him being fit for the first Test, but he could not have played in this game."

England began the day on 217-3 in their second innings and batted on for an hour of the morning session before declaring on 279-4, setting Essex a notional 415 to win.
Ashes itinerary

In that time, Jonny Bairstow, likely to bat at number six in the first Test after Joe Root's elevation up the order at the expense of Nick Compton, made 28 before being bowled playing across the line at Boyd Rankin.

Bairstow was part of the England squad for the Champions Trophy but has played only one domestic Twenty20 game since the Test series against New Zealand finished in May, so was promoted up the order to spend more time in the middle.

"We felt that he needed more time in the middle because he had those three or four weeks without cricket while he was with the Champions Trophy squad," added Flower.

"He's had what he's had, there's nothing more we can do about it."

Since being left out of the England squad for the Essex game, Compton has made scores of 81 and 34 for Somerset against the touring Australians, then added 79 on Wednesday playing against the same opposition as a guest for Worcestershire.

Flower is pleased with Compton's performances, but said the right-hander would only come into consideration if injury or lack of form affected England's openers, rather than those in the middle order.

"It's really nice to see, it's a good reaction from him," said Flower, who led England to Ashes success in 2009 and 2010-11.

"It was nice for him to get more exposure of playing [against] an international side. It was a really good reaction from him to get runs consistently and it shows he's a good, tough fighter.

"He's obviously an opening batsman so if there was an injury to someone batting at six it doesn't mean he's the next cab off the rank."
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Was hoping Worcs would bat first - I can't help thinking that the Australians might try and play Compton into the England side
... seems I may have been right

Australia are so predictable - they've been doing this since Warwick Armstrong's time
 

LegionOfBrad

International Debutant
Yeah i read that. I still think he will be next cab off come what may. There is not really anyone else in contention atm.

Also i know its been said before but the Bairstow situation is really bloody poor planning. He should have been playing rather than carrying drinks around.
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
Slightly worrying about Broad and the cortisone injection. I had him down for 25 wickets this series and man of the series.
 

Cooky Monster

U19 12th Man
Mind seems pretty scrambled to me.


One things for sure England aren't as comfortable in their position as they would have hoped
I just feel a bit sorry for him, he deserved a shot, its almost like the management wanted him to fail so they could bin him off asap, i can't think of a new England batsman in recent times thats had so much pressure heaped on him to perform, he done well in his first 2 tours and should of been backed, Flower could easily of put all the speculation to bed at the start of the home NZ series by coming out in the media and saying Compton will start the Ashes.
 

Cooky Monster

U19 12th Man
Nah I think the performance against New Zealand (especially that second test) had a pretty big influence.
You have to wonder why his mental state was as it was during the home NZ series, the England (man)management or lack of it does make you wonder at times, KPs autobiography should be a great read if he spills the dirt once retired.
 

LegionOfBrad

International Debutant
I just feel a bit sorry for him, he deserved a shot, its almost like the management wanted him to fail so they could bin him off asap, i can't think of a new England batsman in recent times thats had so much pressure heaped on him to perform, he done well in his first 2 tours and should of been backed, Flower could easily of put all the speculation to bed at the start of the home NZ series by coming out in the media and saying Compton will start the Ashes.
I have a feeling Flower never really fancied him.
 

Cooky Monster

U19 12th Man
Slightly worrying about Broad and the cortisone injection. I had him down for 25 wickets this series and man of the series.
Hopefully hes allright, doesn't sound to serious, Swanns the one thats going to get 25 plus wickets, thats if theres any left to take when he comes on :D
 

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