TumTum
Banned
Which evens itself out. Talk about averages
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- Thread starter James
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vcs
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Much better. Also, their opening batsmen ensured there was much more pressure on the bowling side when Murali or other spinners in the past had to come in.
Saying that, Swann is a class act and no matter what he averages overall, he's doing his job by rolling the Aussies over when the conditions are in his favour.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Nah, Australia's first innings in Adelaide was on a flat track.Which evens itself out. Talk about averages
Swann has only had one innings where the pitch was favourable to spin bowling.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Yeah, I think Swann is doing his job really well.
When your own batting gets you a big score, and there's not a huge amount of pressure to bowl in a certain manner and strike at certain times, it shows the benefits. When Swann gets the ball, he knows that he'll be given all day to bowl and work his way into a spell, no matter what happens; was a bit different in the first innings Australia played, where there was more pressure due to England's disappointing score.
It's something that Australian spinners haven't been given since Warne, they are seen as a way of filling in between spells from the pace bowlers. This is compounded by the fact that they don't have records in FC cricket that demand selection, so the need to "nurture" them into action is created. For nuture, replace with "hide" where you see fit.
When your own batting gets you a big score, and there's not a huge amount of pressure to bowl in a certain manner and strike at certain times, it shows the benefits. When Swann gets the ball, he knows that he'll be given all day to bowl and work his way into a spell, no matter what happens; was a bit different in the first innings Australia played, where there was more pressure due to England's disappointing score.
It's something that Australian spinners haven't been given since Warne, they are seen as a way of filling in between spells from the pace bowlers. This is compounded by the fact that they don't have records in FC cricket that demand selection, so the need to "nurture" them into action is created. For nuture, replace with "hide" where you see fit.
TumTum
Banned
Usually the 1st innings never favors the spinners in any ground. So spinners have never gotten an equal share of the pie.
flibbertyjibber
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It was and he managed to keep it very tight despite Hussey and Haddin batting well. To be honest his 1st innings performance on the road was just as impressive as the 5 for on the bunsen burner on days 4 and 5.
M0rphin3
International Debutant
Statistically yes. But majority of his wickets were against Pak & BD IIRC. So not by a huge margin imo. Gun offie though.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
These pitches at times have been some of the flattest I've ever seen in Australia.
Gabba had some green on day 1 along with cloud cover to aid the quicks, and Adelaide began to turn sharply on days 4 and 5.
In between that its been flatter than many pitches.
Either way, a spinner's job is to take wickets when conditions are favourable. Especially overseas sp[inners in Australia and South Africa.
Swann has ticked both of that off.
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flibbertyjibber
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v Australia 7 matches 23 wkts @ 38.65Statistically yes. But majority of his wickets were against Pak & BD IIRC. So not by a huge margin imo. Gun offie though.
v Bangladesh 4 matches 22 wkts @ 27.9
v India 2 matches 8 wkts @ 39.5 (debut series away)
v Pakistan 4 matches 22 wkts @ 12.22
v S.A. 4 matches 21 wkts @ 31.38
v West Indies 5 matches 26 wkts @ 22.15
A good record against nearly all the nations he has played against and his poor record v Australia isn't that bad when you consider in the 3 matches England have won he has played a huge role in each of them in the last innings. Doing it when conditions suit is a huge bonus, many spinners freeze when conditions suit and bowl badly. Swanny hasn't yet.
Howe_zat
Audio File
He's taken 22 vs Pakistan and Bangladesh, 23 vs Australia, 21 vs SA and 26 vs WI. Pretty consistent.Statistically yes. But majority of his wickets were against Pak & BD IIRC. So not by a huge margin imo. Gun offie though.
Over the last year, Swanny has been the best spinner in the world by a nearly embarrassing margin.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
M0rphin3
International Debutant
In all of them except BD, WI, & Pak are 30+ averages IIRC?
M0rphin3
International Debutant
Shakib has 12@29.25 with 2 back to back 5 wicket hauls in the 2 tests played vs SA. Shame that his team is crap and often neverr gets to bowl on a 5th day wicket. Gun innit. Swanneh though is gun, is being overhyped way too much it seems..Record against South Africa is
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M0rphin3
International Debutant
Well, if your point is to prove that he's a good spinner, nvm, I've already admitted that. But Swanneh being the best spinner in world and all that is a tad OTT. That's all.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
How is Swann being the best spinner in the world over the top at all? I think he pretty comfortably is. The only semi-serious competition is Harbhajan, Mendis and Shakib (and I think he's left them for dead really) - it's not like people are saying he's better than Murali.
andyc
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yawn. Please stop grouping us all in together to suit your argument. Even a casual 'some' or 'many' would help. I know I personally was of the opinion that Swann probably wasn't going to be having much of a say in the first innings of games, but would prove the difference in bowling attacks when it came to 4th and 5th day pitches, and I daresay many others were as well.
flibbertyjibber
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This.
We know he isn't in the same league as Murali or Warne in much the same way that Steyn is currently the number 1 paceman around and isn't as good as Donald, Ambrose, Pollock, McGrath etc from the 90's onwards, it doesn't mean he is being overhyped.
Swann is THE best spinner around at present, he would still be regarded as a very good one even if Muarli and Warne were still playing but no Englishman has ever said Swann is better than those two geniuses and any who did is either on drink or drugs.
M0rphin3
International Debutant
If you're going by stats, his stats while damn good, are inflated by playing Pak & BD. Shakib can be equally vicious on assisting conditions, wouldn't you agree? So the margin isn't that huge as some people are making it out to be. No denying that he tops the list though.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Man, look where Swann got his wickets against SA. Now look where Shakib got his wickets against SA.
M0rphin3
International Debutant
In Bloemfontein & Centurion IIRC? Why?
Swanneh in centurion 5/110 & 0/92, & Shakib 6/99 (lost by an innings)
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