*Official* Tennis Thread

[Johnners]

Novaaak

Clinical

 

[Jono]

Was wondering when you'd show up

 

[Francis]

That was a bad look for Murray guys. I mean he has the game to win a Grand Slam, but stuff like telling his mother to be quiet, or looking at his box and telling them to not panic... that was a really bad look.

I think if Murray was mentally up to the big stage Novak still would have won. I hope Novak gets some kudos for his victory, because ever since the first round he's looked better than everybody. I was at a friends house watching his first match and going 'Woah' to a lot of the stuff he was doing, and my friend asked: "Is Federer playing?"

I hope people don't detract from his win over Federer either. Federer played a good game. He acknowledged later he felt he played really well. The truth was Novak outplayed him. He was more powerful and blasted Federer off the court with a better baseline game.

I think now that Federer is the world number 2 and has won 16 or so Grand Slams, people are saying he's a little past his prime. In fact Federer has the same game he had in 2005, it's just that the men's game has caught-up to him.

So Novak was awesome and played the best tennis of his life in the last two weeks.

Murray... he's got the hopes of a nation on his shoulders in a way no other player has. He doesn't control his emotions well on the big stage. I know he'll get a Grand Slam eventually, but will he wake up to what he has to do?

 

[Jono]

I hope people don't detract from his win over Federer either. Federer played a good game. He acknowledged later he felt he played really well. The truth was Novak outplayed him. He was more powerful and blasted Federer off the court with a better baseline game.

I think now that Federer is the world number 2 and has won 16 or so Grand Slams, people are saying he's a little past his prime. In fact Federer has the same game he had in 2005, it's just that the men's game has caught-up to him.

So Novak was awesome and played the best tennis of his life in the last two weeks.

Murray... he's got the hopes of a nation on his shoulders in a way no other player has. He doesn't control his emotions well on the big stage. I know he'll get a Grand Slam eventually, but will he wake up to what he has to do?

Yeah good post. Novak looked damn good all tournament.

 

[vcs]

Djokovic was pretty awesome against Federer and indeed, brilliant all tournament long, but there's no way you can say Federer's game hasn't declined since his peak years (2005-06). He's still playing at a pretty high percentage of that standard even now, it's just that even a 5% decline at this level can make a massive difference.

 

[Jono]

No doubt. He makes waaaaaaaay more errors nowadays.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

That was pathetic.

 

[Anil]

well done novak and kim! worthy winners!

 

[benchmark00]

Aussie Novak.

 

[centurymaker]

Djokovic was pretty awesome against Federer and indeed, brilliant all tournament long, but there's no way you can say Federer's game hasn't declined since his peak years (2005-06). He's still playing at a pretty high percentage of that standard even now, it's just that even a 5% decline at this level can make a massive difference.

He plays at no more than 75-80% of his peak standard now IMO.
As jono said, he makes too many errors nowadays

 

[Francis]

I don't buy the whole 'Federer is going downhill argument.' Why is he going downhill? He moves like he always did.

You could see with Agassi, as his career entered its twilight stage, that he was too old. In 1999 when he had his brief peak and amazing comeback, he had the best return of a player I've ever seen. Later on in his career he wasn't making those returns.

Federer still has all the shots, and in fact is the world #2. He's no slouch. He has all the shots and still does the incredible. It's just that Nadal came along and was better. That and the mens game has finally caught-up to him. Hey it took four years or so!

I mean I thought mens tennis was weak when Hewitt, Safin and Roddick were the world number ones. But look where those guys are now? Safin's retired after dropping far down in the rankings. Hewitt is a mediocre player ranked probably somewhere in the 20s. And Roddick is okay but can be dealt with by the best.

Novak and Nadal won't go the way of these players. Novak will probably end up winning around 6-8 Grand Slams before he's done. Nadal, if he stays healthy, may break Federer's Grand Slam wins (I really hope he does).

The only difference I see in Federer's game these days is he doesn't come in to the net more often, which is more conducive of courts being a bit slower these days.

 

[vcs]

Then I don't think you've watched him closely enough TBH. I've watched nearly every match Federer has played since 2004, and while he's aged very well, he isn't what he was (in terms of movement or weight of shot). It's a natural process, Sampras at a similar stage of his career was struggling to win a title for two years and stay in the top 10.

What you're implying in effect is that every player who comes along and dominates his generation is automatically greater than the dominant ones of the past.

 

[Francis]

I'm not implying that at all.

In my mind mens tennis went backwards when Hewitt, Safin and Roddick were the world number ones.

Compare those three world number ones to Sampras and Agassi and you see how backwards the mens game was.

When Federer first started dominating I was in the, 'yeah but he's got easier competition' camp.

If anything I'm implying that mens tennis went backwards for a while. But this next generation looks stronger than ever to me.

I've watched a ton of Federer too, and really I think he's fine. People were saying he was passed it in 2008 when Nadal beat him at Wimbledon and the Australian Open and demolished him in the French. In reality Federer was good enough to win more Grand Slams, and that he did in 2009.

To me it's no different now, Federer is being criticised as being passed it, but he probably has two/three more Grand Slams in him. And he still beats most players he comes across. You watch, Federer will win some more and people will gush over him being the greatest, and then he'll drop to three in the world and people will say he's finished.

I just don't see what you see.

 

[Jono]

I don't buy the whole 'Federer is going downhill argument.' Why is he going downhill? He moves like he always did.

You could see with Agassi, as his career entered its twilight stage, that he was too old. In 1999 when he had his brief peak and amazing comeback, he had the best return of a player I've ever seen. Later on in his career he wasn't making those returns.

Federer still has all the shots, and in fact is the world #2. He's no slouch. He has all the shots and still does the incredible. It's just that Nadal came along and was better. That and the mens game has finally caught-up to him. Hey it took four years or so!

I mean I thought mens tennis was weak when Hewitt, Safin and Roddick were the world number ones. But look where those guys are now? Safin's retired after dropping far down in the rankings. Hewitt is a mediocre player ranked probably somewhere in the 20s. And Roddick is okay but can be dealt with by the best.

Novak and Nadal won't go the way of these players. Novak will probably end up winning around 6-8 Grand Slams before he's done. Nadal, if he stays healthy, may break Federer's Grand Slam wins (I really hope he does).

The only difference I see in Federer's game these days is he doesn't come in to the net more often, which is more conducive of courts being a bit slower these days.

I'll say this once and then I won't say it ever again. Until now, Rafael Nadal has not been as good as Roger Federer was from 2005-2007. He just hasn't. I'm a ridiculously huge Rafa fan and I can admit that.

You can't say Federer hasn't dropped off when in the past 2-3 years he's lost matches to Gael Monfils, a past his best Hewitt, Albert ****ing Montanes, Ernest Gulbis, Baghdatis, Jo Wilfried Tsonga and here is the best one of them all...

Julien friggin Benneteau.

Roger of 2006/07 may have dropped a match or two to these guys over the space of 24 months. He does not lose to all these guys if he's still at his best. You can say Berdych, Soderling etc. have lifted their game and closed the gap. And obviously Novak, Murray, Del Potro and Rafa are guns. But Julien ****ing Benneteau and Albert Montanes?????

Nope, Roger has fallen away. The game has gotten better, but Roger is definitely not what he was in 2006-07. I agree that the competition in the men's game from 2003-2006 was pretty ****. It wasn't deep, and you had to hope for Safin or Gonzalez to go on a run, or Roddick to play the perfect match. Otherwise no one was beating him and when players like Robredo, Ljubicic etc. were dominating the top 10, obviously the men's game was in a poor stage.

Novak and Rafa have obviously changed that, and Soderling, Berdych, Del Potro etc. are improving the depth.

But this has all happened as Roger has aged. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[Jono]

I'm not implying that at all.

In my mind mens tennis went backwards when Hewitt, Safin and Roddick were the world number ones.

Compare those three world number ones to Sampras and Agassi and you see how backwards the mens game was.

When Federer first started dominating I was in the, 'yeah but he's got easier competition' camp.

If anything I'm implying that mens tennis went backwards for a while. But this next generation looks stronger than ever to me.

I've watched a ton of Federer too, and really I think he's fine. People were saying he was passed it in 2008 when Nadal beat him at Wimbledon and the Australian Open and demolished him in the French. In reality Federer was good enough to win more Grand Slams, and that he did in 2009.

To me it's no different now, Federer is being criticised as being passed it, but he probably has two/three more Grand Slams in him. And he still beats most players he comes across. You watch, Federer will win some more and people will gush over him being the greatest, and then he'll drop to three in the world and people will say he's finished.

I just don't see what you see.

There is nothing wrong in this post.

Except the fact that just because Roger isn't as good as he was 3 years ago doesn't mean he's still not an absolute gun.

But he's prone to error fests, concentration lapses and just **** tennis on occasion. Way more than he used to be.

That's how he loses to Benneteau and Montanes and Stepanek etc.

 

[Jono]

Right, all this talk has made me want to watch a classic Federer match. Back when he was awesome and not a dickhead.

Going to go watch Federer vs. Safin Australian Open 2005 semi-final

 

[vcs]

There is no proof at all, yet, that the Djokovic-Murray-Del Potro-Soderling generation is any better than Hewitt/Safin/Roddick. Even if they are, they're going to find it pretty damn hard to translate it into numbers with Nadal (and to a lesser extent, Federer) around. I really don't see how Federer had it any easier than anyone else.

What is clear is that Federer and Nadal have freakishly dominated the game in the last decade, in a way that very few players of the past have managed.

BTW, it was even worse in the latter years of Sampras's reign when the No. 1 was being passed around by the likes of Moya/Rios/Kafelnikov etc.

 

[Jono]

Yes there is. 2003-2005 didn't have Nadal contending for Grand Slams outside the French. So there is proof he had it easier back then.

And Novak is already a better player than Roddick and you know it. Come on.

 

[vcs]

Right, all this talk has made me want to watch a classic Federer match. Back when he was awesome and not a dickhead.

Going to go watch Federer vs. Safin Australian Open 2005 semi-final

Sensational match.

As I'm posting this, I just saw your last two posts. Perfectly stated.

Federer and Nadal deserve all of the credit for lifting the bar in men's tennis to the extent that players of the level of Ljubicic/Robredo simply cannot get anywhere near the top 5 any longer. You have to be ridiculously consistent in the big ATP events (as Murray/Djokovic/Soderling to a lesser extent have been) to get into the top 5 these days.

 

[vcs]

Yes there is. 2003-2005 didn't have Nadal contending for Grand Slams outside the French. So there is proof he had it easier back then.

And Novak is already a better player than Roddick and you know it. Come on.

Yes, Djokovic is better than Roddick, but it's not as if Roddick was the clear 2nd best player around and his only competitor when Federer was dominating. He also had to contend with Hewitt/Safin/Ferrero/Agassi etc. Nadal also burst onto the scene in early 2005 and has been a fixture ever since, though he has only improved his HC game considerably in the last couple of years.

All in all, I don't think it's that clearcut.

Maybe 2005-06 were weaker years, when Ljubicic/Robredo ended in the top 8. But Federer was clearly dominating by 2004.