*Official* T20 and ODI matches

[BoyBrumby]

Still a tad concerned by Cook & Trott in the same top three. Kieswetter also more of the tortoise than the hare when the ball's doing a little.

Has KP tweeted his disgust yet? Threw his toys last year when "rested", didn't he?

 

[wpdavid]

Can't play Patel in that lineup.

Details svp?

 

[Spark]

Details svp?

Madness to go in with five specialist bats and then play that many bowling all-rounders.

 

[MW1304]

You'd hope Stokes would slot in with the big boys at 6. They'll most likely go for Ravi though, what with the bowling and all.

Edit: @Spark, Sammy's a batting allrounder in the county game tbf. The problem is that he's never really looked like showing enough temperament for international end-of-over stuff.

 

[wpdavid]

Madness to go in with five specialist bats and then play that many bowling all-rounders.

I'm probably being dense here. Do you mean five isn't enough proper batsmen? Two of the bowling all-rounders being Bresnan & Broad doesn't leave us short of fire-power.

My biggest worry about Patel is simply that part-time spinners won't be a problem to India in the slightest.

 

[Spark]

At 6 you really to hold your own as a specialist bat. FFS we used to have Mussey there as our most important player.

 

[Spark]

I'm probably being dense here. Do you mean five isn't enough proper batsmen? Two of the bowling all-rounders being Bresnan & Broad doesn't leave us short of fire-power.

Ideally you want seven, but you absolutely need at least six. You could so easily have lost four by the time the 35th over comes around and you have to always prepare to lose a few wickets in the slog. Broad has never really impressed at ODI level (with the bat!), because he needs time to get set.

 

[wpdavid]

Ideally you want seven, but you absolutely need at least six. You could so easily have lost four by the time the 35th over comes around and you have to always prepare to lose a few wickets in the slog. Broad has never really impressed at ODI level (with the bat!), because he needs time to get set.

Now I'm with you.

 

[Howe_zat]

At 6 you really to hold your own as a specialist bat. FFS we used to have Mussey there as our most important player.

Patel on the county scene is a better batsman than bowler. Bats at #5 in Championship games.

Problem is he's not quite good enough.

 

[Spark]

Now I'm with you.

SL an excellent example at the moment. Their top order is scary strong but if they throw their wickets away - which happens all the time in ODI cricket - then if their weak and thin middle order is exposed early then you could have some pretty embarrassing totals on your hands, which is what happened in the series just concluded.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Here's the ODI squad in full:

Alastair Cook (capt), James Anderson, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Craig Kieswetter (wk), Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Ben Stokes, Graeme Swann, Jonathan Trott


So what's the likely starting XI going to be?

Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
Morgan
Bell
Bopara / Stokes / Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson / Finn
Dernbach

Would hope Bell if he does play it's in the top 3 (even 4 would be a bit of a stretch), would be utter ****ing stupidity to have him at 5/6 *again*. If they pick a guy like Stokes in the squad he should play every game, otherwise don't pick him. I think England really need Morgan at 5/6 for balance for the time being, the late overs are completely hopeless otherwise - England can still tick over without him in the first 25-30 overs. The late over stage is the hardest time to come in and bat, I don't think it's fair to throw in youngsters to do that unless it's their specific role. Stokes bats at 3 for Durham. He's a stroke-maker, that's different to a late order hitter like say Butler.

I think England see Patel as being too loose to bat in the top 6. And England's Test lower-order hasn't remotely translated into the limited overs format yet. Broad and Bresnan are more guys who can play an innings, rather than smash a few at the end - they can smash a few when they're in obviously.

 

[Spark]

A batting average of 12 and no 50s at all is bizarrely poor for a strokemaker of Broad's talent. Hardly a dasher either, SR of just over 70.

 

[MW1304]

Would hope Bell if he does play it's in the top 3 (even 4 would be a bit of a stretch), would be utter ****ing stupidity to have him at 5/6 *again*. If they pick a guy like Stokes in the squad he should play every game, otherwise don't pick him. I think England really need Morgan at 5/6 for balance for the time being, the late overs are completely hopeless otherwise - England can still tick over without him in the first 25-30 overs. The late over stage is the hardest time to come in and bat, I don't think it's fair to throw in youngsters to do that unless it's their specific role. Stokes bats at 3 for Durham. He's a stroke-maker, that's different to a late order hitter like say Butler.

I think England see Patel as being too loose to bat in the top 6. And England's Test lower-order hasn't remotely translated into the limited overs format yet. Broad and Bresnan are more guys who can play an innings, rather than smash a few at the end - they can smash a few when they're in obviously.

Pretty bang on all this, although I wouldn't have a problem with Bell at 4 - that's as low as he should go. Buttler would do wonders for the balance of the team if he went in at 6, we seriously lack late-overs hitting. When we don't have a player like that then, yes, Morgan in at 6 (like Hussey) could be the best answer. I disagree when commentators keep pining for him up the order at 4 so he can "build an innings", we have plenty of guys who can do that but not many who can smash a few at the death (and hey, if we lose 4 wickets early-ish on he's the perfect guy to knock it around and build a partnership, too). Stokes at 5 would be his best position atm, though its just not gonna happen.

 

[Scaly piscine]

A batting average of 12 and no 50s at all is bizarrely poor for a strokemaker of Broad's talent. Hardly a dasher either, SR of just over 70.

Yep, a lot of players struggle coming in towards the end. If England didn't have such a mentally broken approach to batting powerplays someone like Broad and Swann would be well suited to them. As it is they just bat like complete ****wits and make it easy for the opposition.

To me England under-value late over batting. It's just as important if not moreso than the 10-40 over phase. Most of England's side could come in at say the 16th over and milk some runs, if you took the batting powerplay then I think it would help Bell (and someone like Broad/Swann) get in, you'd give them half a dozen balls first but it would help them get going I think.

I'd only back Morgan to come in at the 41st over and come off reasonably often. Some of them could come off if they're already set, then there's some who would still likely fail - such as Trott. Cook and Bell maybe (Bell used to get his attractive cameos and get out before then, so we don't know).

 

[Scaly piscine]

On a slightly different note I wonder if England and India will agree to employ some/all of the new rules coming in for October. I don't see the point in waiting personally, you may as well use the powerplays between overs 16 and 40 as practice at the very least. Although it will be a bit different as the ball will be in an older state.

 

[Jacknife]

Funnily enough the guy who would suit that finisher role would be KP, he can milk the runs as well as hit the long ball.

 

[four_or_six]

Don't mind seeing no KP in there, he has spent a fair bit of time out injured recently and I'd rather he has a break. I'm sure they'll take him to India.

I'd like to see Bell get a proper run whilst in form at four, all ten matches ideally, and then a decision can be made on him for the future.

As for no. 7, I don't think we should be worrying about whether Broad or Swann can bet there, I'd like to see Bresnan have a go. I reckon he looks like the real deal, and is significantly better than either of them.

Fast becoming my favourite England player, Bresnan. WAG.

 

[pskov]

A batting average of 12 and no 50s at all is bizarrely poor for a strokemaker of Broad's talent. Hardly a dasher either, SR of just over 70.

Broad has the same issue that Prior does in limited overs batting. He's a boundary hitter not that adept at working the singles and off-side dominant, so very easy to restrict his scoring areas.

 

[MW1304]

Don't mind seeing no KP in there, he has spent a fair bit of time out injured recently and I'd rather he has a break. I'm sure they'll take him to India.

I'd like to see Bell get a proper run whilst in form at four, all ten matches ideally, and then a decision can be made on him for the future.

As for no. 7, I don't think we should be worrying about whether Broad or Swann can bet there, I'd like to see Bresnan have a go. I reckon he looks like the real deal, and is significantly better than either of them.

Fast becoming my favourite England player, Bresnan. WAG.

Swann above Broad though. And if we're 5 down with like 5 overs or less remaining then bump Swann up - we need to be more flexible in general, depending on the situation.

 

[FBU]

Alas, we won 4-3

Was actually a really good ODI series. Close games and it went to the wire.

Broad should do serious damage here anyway. He's unreal in ODIs when on form.

It was Lancs bowlers doing the job then....

Cricket Records | NatWest Series [India in England], 2007 - England | Records | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo