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***Official** Sri Lanka in New Zealand
- Thread starter JASON
- Start date
Dick Rockett
International Vice-Captain
His arm's above horizontal at the point of delivery. That's all that's required under the rules.
JBH001
International Regular
I fail to see the point of all this.KaZoH0lic said:
Bruce Yardley coached Murali (at senior school level in the late 80s) and said he had not trouble with his action, despite some initial doubts on first seeing him - like nearly everybody else. Furthermore, Murali did not begin bowling spin early in his career, he was a medium pacer until he was 15/16 or thereabouts, when his school coach persuaded him to bowl spinners, as he was a mediocre pacer at best. It was after that that he began bowling offies and settled into spin mode.
Again, I fail to see the point of this line of questioning.
However, I can think of 2 objectives you might be going for:
1. None of the Sri Lanka cricketing establishment thought fit to check him, or look at his action, because they are deliberate cheats. Even though his action screams "bullshyte" - as you so eloquently put it - they did nothing because they deliberately wanted to give him an unfair advantage.
2. The Sri Lankan cricketing establishment and coaches are all incompetent useless hacks because they failed to correct Murali's unorthodox technique.
Which of these are you pursuing?
There are huge problems with both these points of view...that is for any unbiased observer.
(unless of course you are pursuing some other objective which eludes me)
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Nah, I'm pretty sure when the Aussies are clobbering 'em around it's the same.Raghav said:
I don't need to give you an answer, reason it out for yourself. But do you think it would be first time that a Cricket board would make some shady decisions to benefit the team?JBH001 said:
JBH001
International Regular
Right, so the Sri Lankan cricketing establishment and cricket board (btw which board do you mean?) are all a bunch of cheats who have successfully protected Murali all these years, in fact, from the time he was a schoolboy cricketer.KaZoH0lic said:
Is this what you mean?
I wish I had recourse to the crystal ball they must have used in the late 80s and early 90s when Murali first began to make a name for himself. It must have told them that he would have a very ordinary record for the first 4 - 5 years of his test career. It must have told them that all he could bowl was the big offie and nothing else in tests, for almost the first quarter of his total tests matches, as he did in school cricket. It must have told them how he was unable to bowl South Africa out in the last innings on a dustbowl in Sri Lanka as they padded and swept him away because he simply could not straighten the ball, and finally had to (too late) bowl Jonty Rhodes behind his legs with a leg spinner. It must have told them that Murali would later go away and work on his bowling with countless hours in the nets, so that he could straighten the ball, and also gain better control of length. It must have told them about this other guy called Saqlain who would come along and devise a new delivery, which Murali would later refine and improve and turn into a powerful weapon after ball after ball in the nets. It must have told them that Murali would take over 650 wickets and that if they just protected him, and guarded him, by any means possible 'all' would be well. It must have told them all this and more, so much more, when Murali was just a humble school level cricketer in his middle teens, toiling away in the hot Colombo sun. One wonders how much else the board (which board?) knows.
It is also too bad they did not use this handy crystal ball to maintain and guide the careers of so many other talented cricketers (often Singhalese in a largely Singhalese country whereas Murali is a Tamil) who have otherwise fallen by the wayside, turfed and tossed aside with gay abandon.
I would like to ask these questions of the board, and of the Sri Lankan cricketing establishment. But I don't know which ones you mean, Kaz0holic.
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Magrat Garlick
Rather Mad Witch
Runs in the series:Samuel_Vimes said:Deal.NZTailender said:Oh, ambitious.I'm going to look that up right now.
Edit: 23 runs. Haha. I won't take it up personally, but if he fails to do it...hmm...
Then you have to have a picture of Craig McMillan as your avatar for 1 week
Pondering a good one for you in return, tho. How about Silva scoring more runs than Oram?
NZTailender said:
Lindamlilage Prageeth Chamara Silva: 213 runs, 195 more than
Jacob David Philip Oram.
Hewasandatchige Asiri Prasanna Wishvanath Jayawardene: 80 runs, 57 more than Vettori in 98.
Pay up, Greg.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
JBH001 said:
and I guess the PCB had a crystal ball for Shoaib and Asif.BTW, if you're going to use the poor guy's ethnicity at least cover more ground. One argument is that because he is a Tamil, and the nation needing someone to represent an equal Sri Lanka, is why he is so 'big'.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I didn't side-step anything - just your inability to accept that people can be shady. I don't want to protract the debate that long, as I've stated in this thread, but when you replied directly I thought it courteous to reply. But I don't agree with your point and this debate will go on and on.JBH001 said:
JBH001
International Regular
Fair enough.
It is especially difficult because you have not stated your position explicitly.
From some of your comments on this thread (junior level, school coaching etc) you make it sound as if there was a conspiracy to get Murali into tests, and protect him from the time he was a schoolboy cricketer. A notion that is ludicrous - as I attempted to point out with my crystal ball analogy. In fact Murali was a very ordinary bowler for the first 4 - 5 years of his career, he had to work at it to become the bowler he has become.
From my own experience (i grew up in Sri Lanka) there were whispers about his action in schools level cricket, and I recall two of my own coaches say that he either chucked it, or had a very dubious action at best. But this was balanced by others, more in the know who perhaps had more direct experience and involvement with Murali, who said that he did not chuck it - and that it only looked like he did.
In other words, that his action and capacities were a result of unique physical gifts intersecting with an early polio ailment.
But as others have said, there is no more point getting sucked into this - I have debated this and read these and more in other threads and places.
It is especially difficult because you have not stated your position explicitly.
From some of your comments on this thread (junior level, school coaching etc) you make it sound as if there was a conspiracy to get Murali into tests, and protect him from the time he was a schoolboy cricketer. A notion that is ludicrous - as I attempted to point out with my crystal ball analogy. In fact Murali was a very ordinary bowler for the first 4 - 5 years of his career, he had to work at it to become the bowler he has become.
From my own experience (i grew up in Sri Lanka) there were whispers about his action in schools level cricket, and I recall two of my own coaches say that he either chucked it, or had a very dubious action at best. But this was balanced by others, more in the know who perhaps had more direct experience and involvement with Murali, who said that he did not chuck it - and that it only looked like he did.
In other words, that his action and capacities were a result of unique physical gifts intersecting with an early polio ailment.
But as others have said, there is no more point getting sucked into this - I have debated this and read these and more in other threads and places.
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Sri Lanka 'fired up' by Crowe
By JONATHAN MILLMOW | Tuesday, 19 December 2006
Reuters
UNDER SCRUTINY: Controversy over Sri Lanka's Muttiah Muralitharan suspect bowling action follows the test side everywhere.
Mahela Jayawardene did not need to give his troops a team talk yesterday morning.
The victorious Sri Lankan captain said all the motivation came the previous evening from former New Zealand test captain Martin Crowe, who, during a commentary stint on Sky TV, revisited the subject of Muttiah Muralitharan's bowling action.
Crowe claimed that since the rule allowing a 15-degree flex in a bowler's arm was introduced in 2004, Muralitharan had never been tested to see whether he had fallen back into old habits - especially when delivering his lethal doosra.
Crowe said the ICC was remiss in not running regular warrant of fitness checks on problem actions but the Sri Lankans took umbrage at his reference after their series levelling 217-run victory in the second test at the Basin Reserve.
"I have a lot of regard for that person who made that comment as a cricketer but those things should be left alone to people who understand the (situation)," Jayawardene said.
"I know Murali wouldn't want me to say those things, but for me personally and the team I didn't have to make a big speech to motivate the guys because that motivated the guys to do well.
"We had a game in Christchurch and Murali took seven wickets and we heard none of those comments, so obviously when we are in a good situation to hear those is quite unfair."
Jayawardene added concerns over Muralitharan's action had not been raised at any stage this year during series against England, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan.
Muralitharan systematically worked his way through the New Zealand batting lineup yesterday to end with 6-87 from 34.1 overs and a match analysis of 10-118.
It represented his fifth 10-wicket haul in the past six tests and took his calendar year tally to 90 in 11 tests and career tally to 674.
He also prised a record off Daniel Vettori that the New Zealand left-arm spinner had for less than 24 hours. Vettori's 10-183 earlier in the test was the first 10-wicket haul by a slow bowler on the Basin Reserve but that mark has now been bettered.
Jayawardene was the first to concede that four individual efforts had paved the way for their victory.
Kumar Sangakkara's breathtaking century was the start, then Lasith Malinga' blinding spell of yorkers followed by Chamara Silva's maiden test century and Murali's fourth-day demolition.
Jayawardene said Malinga's yorker had developed on the mid-year tour to England and with his increased pace and unique action he could sympathise with the problems opposition sides faced.
Malinga had an eventful day yesterday despite battling a nasty cold.
He claimed the key wicket of Stephen Fleming with his second ball of the morning and knocked out Vettori's middle stump with a no ball on the way to taking 2-62.
"He's a tough guy, he's got a big heart and I'm glad that he is in my side," the Sri Lankan captain said.
By JONATHAN MILLMOW | Tuesday, 19 December 2006
Reuters
UNDER SCRUTINY: Controversy over Sri Lanka's Muttiah Muralitharan suspect bowling action follows the test side everywhere.
Mahela Jayawardene did not need to give his troops a team talk yesterday morning.
The victorious Sri Lankan captain said all the motivation came the previous evening from former New Zealand test captain Martin Crowe, who, during a commentary stint on Sky TV, revisited the subject of Muttiah Muralitharan's bowling action.
Crowe claimed that since the rule allowing a 15-degree flex in a bowler's arm was introduced in 2004, Muralitharan had never been tested to see whether he had fallen back into old habits - especially when delivering his lethal doosra.
Crowe said the ICC was remiss in not running regular warrant of fitness checks on problem actions but the Sri Lankans took umbrage at his reference after their series levelling 217-run victory in the second test at the Basin Reserve.
"I have a lot of regard for that person who made that comment as a cricketer but those things should be left alone to people who understand the (situation)," Jayawardene said.
"I know Murali wouldn't want me to say those things, but for me personally and the team I didn't have to make a big speech to motivate the guys because that motivated the guys to do well.
"We had a game in Christchurch and Murali took seven wickets and we heard none of those comments, so obviously when we are in a good situation to hear those is quite unfair."
Jayawardene added concerns over Muralitharan's action had not been raised at any stage this year during series against England, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan.
Muralitharan systematically worked his way through the New Zealand batting lineup yesterday to end with 6-87 from 34.1 overs and a match analysis of 10-118.
It represented his fifth 10-wicket haul in the past six tests and took his calendar year tally to 90 in 11 tests and career tally to 674.
He also prised a record off Daniel Vettori that the New Zealand left-arm spinner had for less than 24 hours. Vettori's 10-183 earlier in the test was the first 10-wicket haul by a slow bowler on the Basin Reserve but that mark has now been bettered.
Jayawardene was the first to concede that four individual efforts had paved the way for their victory.
Kumar Sangakkara's breathtaking century was the start, then Lasith Malinga' blinding spell of yorkers followed by Chamara Silva's maiden test century and Murali's fourth-day demolition.
Jayawardene said Malinga's yorker had developed on the mid-year tour to England and with his increased pace and unique action he could sympathise with the problems opposition sides faced.
Malinga had an eventful day yesterday despite battling a nasty cold.
He claimed the key wicket of Stephen Fleming with his second ball of the morning and knocked out Vettori's middle stump with a no ball on the way to taking 2-62.
"He's a tough guy, he's got a big heart and I'm glad that he is in my side," the Sri Lankan captain said.
Leave Murali Alone, Crow Sri Lankans
Devious Duo Prey On Confused Black Caps
19/12/2006NZPAAs New Zealand's premier batsman, Martin Crowe caused Sri Lanka's cricketers plenty of irritation at the Basin Reserve in 1991.
And as a television analyst at the ground he has succeeded in getting under the skin of the current touring side by urging the International Cricket Council (ICC) to reassess the action of highly-scrutinised spinner Muttiah Muralitharan.
Crowe, who shared in a then world record stand of 624 with Andrew Jones before going on to score 299, angered the Sri Lankan's last night by urging the International Cricket Council (ICC) to re-examine Muralitharan's controversial action when he delivers his lethal "doosra".
Muralitharan's rubbery bent elbow delivery style has not been analysed since the ICC gave bowlers the latitude to flex their arms 15 degrees in 2004 and Crowe said it was time to check his action was still inside the limitations.
Although Crowe stopped short of reigniting the "chucking" debate, Sri Lanka interpreted his comments as an unqualified attack on their match winner.
"I know Murali's not a guy (to get upset) but for me personally and the team I didn't have to make a big speech in the morning to motivate the guys," captain Mahela Jayawardene said after his side completed a 217-run victory in the second and final test shortly before tea on day four.
"Those comments motivated the guys to make sure they we did well."
Muralitharan has cut a swathe through opposition line-ups in 2006, exceeding his 80-wicket haul in 2001 with a career-best 90 from 11 tests during this calendar year.
His array of offspinners and the doosra, a delivery that sends the ball the other way, have confounded batsmen from Bangladesh, England, Pakistan and South Africa and most recently, New Zealand, as he races towards the 700 test wicket milestone.
Muralitharan ended the year on 674 thanks to 10-wicket hauls in his five of his last six tests.
He claimed four for 31 and six for 87 at the Basin Reserve to boost his tally and only missed out on a six-pack when claiming a mere seven scalps during the first test in Christchurch, a match New Zealand won by five wickets.
Those stunning statistics led Crowe to question whether he should be reassessed but Jayawardene said the New Zealander was out of bounds.
"I have a lot of regard for him as a cricketer but those kind of comments should be left alone, they're not experts on bio-mechanics or science," Jayawardene said.
"It's quite unfair to point the finger at Murali. The ICC tested all the bowlers in Sri Lanka and Murali wasn't on top of the list.
"If you look at international bowlers, everyone has the flex."
Jayawardene said England, South Africa, Pakistan and even Australia had no issue with his star's action when they played Sri Lanka this year before questioning the timing of Crowe's comments.
"We had a game in Christchurch as well where Murali took seven wickets and none of those comments were heard.
"Is it a different situation if you're in a good situation and winning matches?"
Meanwhile, Jayawardene said the issue would not prove a distraction ahead of two Twenty20 matches and five one-dayers against New Zealand, likening it to the Muralitharan run-out debate following the first test.
"We just want to let that rest now as well now and move on. We have a lot of cricket ahead of us."
Copyright: NZPA 2006
Devious Duo Prey On Confused Black Caps
19/12/2006NZPAAs New Zealand's premier batsman, Martin Crowe caused Sri Lanka's cricketers plenty of irritation at the Basin Reserve in 1991.
And as a television analyst at the ground he has succeeded in getting under the skin of the current touring side by urging the International Cricket Council (ICC) to reassess the action of highly-scrutinised spinner Muttiah Muralitharan.
Crowe, who shared in a then world record stand of 624 with Andrew Jones before going on to score 299, angered the Sri Lankan's last night by urging the International Cricket Council (ICC) to re-examine Muralitharan's controversial action when he delivers his lethal "doosra".
Muralitharan's rubbery bent elbow delivery style has not been analysed since the ICC gave bowlers the latitude to flex their arms 15 degrees in 2004 and Crowe said it was time to check his action was still inside the limitations.
Although Crowe stopped short of reigniting the "chucking" debate, Sri Lanka interpreted his comments as an unqualified attack on their match winner.
"I know Murali's not a guy (to get upset) but for me personally and the team I didn't have to make a big speech in the morning to motivate the guys," captain Mahela Jayawardene said after his side completed a 217-run victory in the second and final test shortly before tea on day four.
"Those comments motivated the guys to make sure they we did well."
Muralitharan has cut a swathe through opposition line-ups in 2006, exceeding his 80-wicket haul in 2001 with a career-best 90 from 11 tests during this calendar year.
His array of offspinners and the doosra, a delivery that sends the ball the other way, have confounded batsmen from Bangladesh, England, Pakistan and South Africa and most recently, New Zealand, as he races towards the 700 test wicket milestone.
Muralitharan ended the year on 674 thanks to 10-wicket hauls in his five of his last six tests.
He claimed four for 31 and six for 87 at the Basin Reserve to boost his tally and only missed out on a six-pack when claiming a mere seven scalps during the first test in Christchurch, a match New Zealand won by five wickets.
Those stunning statistics led Crowe to question whether he should be reassessed but Jayawardene said the New Zealander was out of bounds.
"I have a lot of regard for him as a cricketer but those kind of comments should be left alone, they're not experts on bio-mechanics or science," Jayawardene said.
"It's quite unfair to point the finger at Murali. The ICC tested all the bowlers in Sri Lanka and Murali wasn't on top of the list.
"If you look at international bowlers, everyone has the flex."
Jayawardene said England, South Africa, Pakistan and even Australia had no issue with his star's action when they played Sri Lanka this year before questioning the timing of Crowe's comments.
"We had a game in Christchurch as well where Murali took seven wickets and none of those comments were heard.
"Is it a different situation if you're in a good situation and winning matches?"
Meanwhile, Jayawardene said the issue would not prove a distraction ahead of two Twenty20 matches and five one-dayers against New Zealand, likening it to the Muralitharan run-out debate following the first test.
"We just want to let that rest now as well now and move on. We have a lot of cricket ahead of us."
Copyright: NZPA 2006
NZ cricket and particularly its CEO Martin Snedden in his infinite wisdom chose to play 2 x Twenty 20 internationals to replace the originally planned 3rd Test Test . So there you go.Sir Redman said:
It would've been a great 3rd Test, since these are 2 evenly matched Teams.To improve the spoilt relationship between the Two teams over all the silly Crow sh** 
and the run out saga, it would've been a great idea if Rigger (Mark Richardson) and SL physio (Tony Simsek) been scheduled for a sprint challenge after the Test .. It would have been great...
I wonder if Rigger is man enough to challenge Tony Simsek (who is by the way an Aussie and one of the Truly fastest sprinters seen on a Cricket field) ?
They could hold this sprint challenge before the 20/20 international in Auckland perhaps on Boxing Day .... with some players from each team also joining...
and the run out saga, it would've been a great idea if Rigger (Mark Richardson) and SL physio (Tony Simsek) been scheduled for a sprint challenge after the Test .. It would have been great...I wonder if Rigger is man enough to challenge Tony Simsek (who is by the way an Aussie and one of the Truly fastest sprinters seen on a Cricket field) ?
They could hold this sprint challenge before the 20/20 international in Auckland perhaps on Boxing Day .... with some players from each team also joining...
You are right, but it pulls crowds in Australia/NZ.Lostman said:watching 20/20 cricket is like watching a movie that lasts less than an hour 30 mins for me. I feel like i got robbed cause its too short.
You will be amazed when you find a 7-10,000 crowd at each of the 20/20s which out numbers the Total Christchurch Test by 3-4 times over .
In fact even the Test in SA (wanderers) which I was watching live over last few nights seemed to have poor Crowd turn out.
kanenzl
Cricket Spectator
how about this for a newzealand test team.
1. vincent
2. fleming
3. mcmillian
4. styris
5. astle
6. oram
7. mccullum
8. vettori
9. franklin
10. bond
11. martin
i think the addition of vincent, mcmillian and styris would greatly improve nzl's batting woes. i know fleming dosnt like to open but to fit mcmillian in he has to. that top order definitely looks more solid than cumming, how and sinclair
1. vincent
2. fleming
3. mcmillian
4. styris
5. astle
6. oram
7. mccullum
8. vettori
9. franklin
10. bond
11. martin
i think the addition of vincent, mcmillian and styris would greatly improve nzl's batting woes. i know fleming dosnt like to open but to fit mcmillian in he has to. that top order definitely looks more solid than cumming, how and sinclair