***Official*** Sri Lanka in England

[James]

We're getting coverage of the ODI series here in New Zealand, and on the advertisement which seems to play every day it says "The might of the English lions take on minnows Sri Lanka". Perhaps it's time the advert is updated

 

[marc71178]

so before the summer you would have predicted or even considered the idea that gillespie would end up with 3 wickets at 100 a piece in the Ashes?

Possibly not as bad as that, no, but the signs were there that he wasn't as effective as he had been.

 

[marc71178]

Errr ... I remember Marc##### saying Jayasuriya is "over the hill" and still playing on the back of his past glories ....... about 2 years ago

Yes, and if you care to look at his record since that comment, it's far from world beating isn't it.

 

[tooextracool]

Can't argue with that, really. That pitch was a 500+ pitch for sure and someone should have gotten a ton but that has to be tempered with the fact that they were playing the best side in the world and some for of a fightback is inevitable. The Aussies aren't just going to drop their heads and concede 600; someone like Warne (as he did) is going to come to the party eventually.

That is questionable at best. While at least Warne and Lee bowled well in the 2nd innings of the Edgbaston test, in the first Lee was atrocious, and Warne got absolutely nothing off the pitch. There was no threat from any Australian bowled. Considering the fact that Ponting and the Aussies never had a successful bowling plan to cope with the England batsman all series, Australias poor fielding and Pontings ordinary captaincy, 407 was not enough IMO. At Trent Bridge during the Geraint Jones-Flintoff partnership, i have never seen an Aussie side that just seemed to be in such a state of hopelessness so as to say to themselves, theres nothing we can do about this we're just going to wait for them to screw up. Fielders started misfielding balls that went straight to them, bowlers were bowling no balls there was no hope to the point that you felt sorry for them. Yet somehow even in that game, England managed to let them right back with lower(1st innings) and top order(2nd innings) collapses.

No, you can't credit England with the initial drops that's true. What you can do, however, is credit both KP and Vaughan for realising that it was their day, that they'd had some luck (in the case of KP, quite a bit) and that they went on with it. Without both their innings', England's totals would have been quite poor and once he got past 50, KP's knock was really something special.

To this day i dont rate that KP 158. Oh it was an inning under pressure for sure, but when you need 3 chances, and hook every short delivery without a care in the world for the situation then it cant be considered to be a good knock. Im fine with being aggressive, but being aggressive should involve playing to your strengths, it should not involve mindless slogging. This sort of innings is what one would expect from Shahid Afridi, and the fact that he got away with it wont change my opinion about it. At least the Michael Vaughan 166 oozed class after those chances(which happened in the space of 2 balls), Pietersens 3 chances were spread for a majority of his inning.

Or bowling consistently 90+ either, for that matter. Oh, I'm not denying that we're seeing some regression back to the mean with England right now and that a couple of players played out of their skins for sure. But the same thing happened to the Aussies after beating the WI in 1995; some poor performances followed especially away from home. England, albeit with many more injuries, are suffering from an Ashes hangover, which I mooted as a distinct possibility right after the Ashes and was nigh-on ridiculed for it. I knew it was going to happen and it had nothing to do with England's ability or otherwise; it happens to every team.

I think Englands main problem is their refusal to change. The selectors constantly seem to think that the side that won the Ashes was and still should be their best XI but in reality that is not the case. Geraint Jones, Andrew Strauss and even Steve Harmison need to have their places seriously examined, while players like Pietersen need to be reminded that there are plenty of reserve players capable of doing the job just as well as he is doing it at the moment.

Yes Australia were facing an attack which was in good nick, indeed. But, although I agree the bowling was what ultimately separated the two teams, England's batters also had a greater attacking intent. They seemed to have been given the freedom to play shots and it paid dividends..

Once again i question whether it did pay dividends. The batsman never won England a test in the Ashes, it was always the bowlers who did so. They may have carried out their attacking strategy with some sort of success, but i highly doubt that things would have been the same if Mcgrath,Gillespie and Kaspa had bowled the way they can.

Plus, just about every English plan seemed to come off. When a wicket was needed, a wicket happened. It was uncanny. That was a combination of great planning (the bowling and field plans to Hayden, Ponting, Martyn and Gilchrist were outstanding all series) and good luck (that what they planned actually came off).

I lost count of how many times the commentators would say something like "OKay well Freddie has o pitch the ball in area x for Martyn with this field", Freddie would hit area x and boom, wicket. England's plans were good, execution excellent but finishing was poor.

That is indeed true but is merely one of the reasons for their Ashes success.

Maybe not QUITE as poor but it wasn't far off and once he was exposed, it quickly unravelled. I was tearing my hair out at how many times Dizzy would angle the ball in at middle-and-leg and it'd hit the mid-wicket fence like a shot. Eventually, England's batsmen were treating him with contempt; it was clear they didn't rate him as a threat at all.

I dont doubt that England were somewhat responsible for Gillespie being lacklustre in that series. The whole mental disintegration process of Gillespie probably began in the Natwest series when Pietersen absolutely trounced him all over the place, and after that everyone else tried to take advantage of a bowler who was already short of confidence. But i certainly dont subscribe to the idea that Gillespie was bowling anywhere near as poorly in the series before, while he may have been inconsistent, he was certainly not downright poor

 

[tooextracool]

Possibly not as bad as that, no, but the signs were there that he wasn't as effective as he had been.

As i mentioned earlier his ODI performances were still upto standard, something which was not the case in the natwest series and challenge.

 

[Autobahn]

I think Englands main problem is their refusal to change. The selectors constantly seem to think that the side that won the Ashes was and still should be their best XI but in reality that is not the case. Geraint Jones, Andrew Strauss and even Steve Harmison need to have their places seriously examined, while players like Pietersen need to be reminded that there are plenty of reserve players capable of doing the job just as well as he is doing it at the moment.

Maybe GoJo but to suggest that harmy and strauss aren't worth their places is pushing it.

 

[viktor]

Twice in two days, I've read articles that propose the idea of removing Fletcher as ODI coach. I am sure its unprecedented to have two coaches for different forms of the game. Personally, I don't think that will work if the personnel in both teams are more or less the same. What do you ppl think? Also, if it is workable, who should replace Fletcher?

 

[James]

Twice in two days, I've read articles that propose the idea of removing Fletcher as ODI coach. I am sure its unprecedented to have two coaches for different forms of the game. Personally, I don't think that will work if the personnel in both teams are more or less the same. What do you ppl think? Also, if it is workable, who should replace Fletcher?

Isn't Steve Rixon coaching one of the English counties now? If so, he would be great choice. He did wonders for New Zealand in the late 90's.

 

[JASON]

Twice in two days, I've read articles that propose the idea of removing Fletcher as ODI coach. I am sure its unprecedented to have two coaches for different forms of the game. Personally, I don't think that will work if the personnel in both teams are more or less the same. What do you ppl think? Also, if it is workable, who should replace Fletcher?

Do you think they stole the idea from me ..

Regardless, I think its a sensible move for England , given the resources that is available to do this, and it can only improve their ODI Team from what it is ATM.

Having watched the 3 ODIs , I feel sad that England are not competing well in ODIs .

This is not new and England traditionally have ignored ODI cricket internationally or not considered important enough . I feel given the great number of specialist One Day coaches in the County set up in England, the only way to change this attitude is for England to have a separate ODI coach and work on developing this part of the game separately .

Someone like Steve Rixon , Mathew Maynard or Neil Fairbrother etc. could be made England ODI coach and resources allocated to develop this ODI team as a separte entity from the Test Team.

 

[marc71178]

Pietersens 3 chances were spread for a majority of his inning.

Weren't they all before he got to 50?

 

[marc71178]

Regardless, I think its a sensible move for England , given the resources that is available to do this, and it can only improve their ODI Team from what it is ATM.

I dont think it really matters who is in charge if the players available aren't up to the task.

 

[Top_Cat]

Weren't they all before he got to 50?

Yup, all three were definitely before he reached 50. He also popped a lifter from Lee over slips before 50 too.

 

[wpdavid]

I dont think it really matters who is in charge if the players available aren't up to the task.

True, but do you really think Fletcher is getting the best from the players available? Are they really *that* bad?

 

[Kweek]

Rixon is doing S*rry isnt he?

 

[tooextracool]

Maybe GoJo but to suggest that harmy and strauss aren't worth their places is pushing it.

because those 2 have been playing so brilliantly recently? Like it or not, Cook is probably more than just a worthy replacement for Strauss, when the entire side is at full fitness. So is Anderson for Harmison. Of course i dont think Harmison should be dropped just yet, i think though that his place in the side should be under scrutiny though if he were to come back and bowl as poorly as hes been bowling of late.

 

[tooextracool]

Twice in two days, I've read articles that propose the idea of removing Fletcher as ODI coach. I am sure its unprecedented to have two coaches for different forms of the game. Personally, I don't think that will work if the personnel in both teams are more or less the same. What do you ppl think? Also, if it is workable, who should replace Fletcher?

i couldnt think of a better idea IMO. anyone who can suggest that he knows 10 out of 11 of Englands world cup XI side deserves to be dropped.

 

[tooextracool]

Weren't they all before he got to 50?

i thought his 3rd chance came after 50. nonetheless it was still spread out far more than Vaughans chances were.

 

[tooextracool]

True, but do you really think Fletcher is getting the best from the players available? Are they really *that* bad?

Plunkett, Mahmood and Geraint are for sure. i think the first change that would be made if anyone other than Fletcher was coach would be Read in the side for Jones. Regardless, i read in an article recently that Duncan fletcher claimed that the plan against SL was to bowl straight, and he mentioned that none of the bowlers seemed capable of doing it.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Theres not much a coach can do it his players dont follow his plans, he cant MAKE them bowl straight.

These are apparently the best young bowlers we have, so its either we stick with them in the hope they improve, or we bring in some older county player who would do us a job but probably wont have much of a future.

 

[tooextracool]

Theres not much a coach can do it his players dont follow his plans, he cant MAKE them bowl straight.

that was not the point i was trying to make. I was arguing the point made about whether they were really that bad. When bowlers are incapable of bowling straight, then they are that bad. Duncan Fletchers and the rest of the selectors clearly are a bunch of fools when it comes to ODI selection, that is something that no one can argue.

These are apparently the best young bowlers we have, so its either we stick with them in the hope they improve, or we bring in some older county player who would do us a job but probably wont have much of a future.

So you're saying that Plunkett list A average of 33.82 @ 5.14, Mahmood average of 25.37 @ 5.07 and Bresnan averaging 39 @4.92 are the best bowlers in the domestic system? Because clearly you have to be completely out of your mind if you are.