*Official* Sri Lanka in Australia 2010

[Prince EWS]

Reckon people vastly over-estimate the importance of teams being "hungry" or "focused", in most circumstances, as well as the importance of captaincy in most circumstances. You tend to lose because the opposition has better players than you do, but we often seem to have forgotten how to acknowledge that. In particular, we often seem unwilling to acknowledge that the team we've put out on the park is often close to our full strength unit, but in recent times hasn't been good enough.

Not picking on you specifically, but its something you hear a lot, and after a while excuses about focus, hunger, "poor" selection etc etc are just that - excuses. We're a good team, but we're not what we were. No point refusing to accept that IMO. Still try to be the very best you can, and aim to win every match, but to act like somehow someone (selector, captain, whatever) made a silly preventable mistake every time we lose is wrong.

 

[GotSpin]

Positive Pete? haha wtf?

I'm not so sure about that. Given the extremely focussed preparation of England for this Ashes series (it seems as though they feel this is their time), I think they really want to face Australia in their peak form. It's like a clash of egos. They don't want to be pump themselves up so much to only be presented with a team coming of a series of losses - i.e. a team that looks weak.

In general, I would say yes its good for a team's confidence to be on a roll, but for this series which has a different feel coming up to it, I think this image of Australia can only be of benefit to us.

Yeah you can call me negative nelly.

I understand the point, I guess how we underestimated England in 2005. But I always think it's better to be on the march

 

[Prince EWS]

Form >>>> determination to win.

It's not like it's a two-Test series against Bangladesh either; the players will already be pretty pumped for it. I don't think they'll need any extra motivation to win back the Ashes on home soil. Losing is just going to make them lack confidence.

 

[Ruckus]

Reckon people vastly over-estimate the importance of teams being "hungry" or "focused", in most circumstances, as well as the importance of captaincy in most circumstances. You tend to lose because the opposition has better players than you do, but we often seem to have forgotten how to acknowledge that. In particular, we often seem unwilling to acknowledge that the team we've put out on the park is often close to our full strength unit, but in recent times hasn't been good enough.

Not picking on you specifically, but its something you hear a lot, and after a while excuses about focus, hunger, "poor" selection etc etc are just that - excuses. We're a good team, but we're not what we were. No point refusing to accept that IMO. Still try to be the very best you can, and aim to win every match, but to act like somehow someone (selector, captain, whatever) made a silly preventable mistake every time we lose is wrong.

Na, I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I wasn't talking about the reasons we lost these games. I'm just saying the psychological impact of losing these games could potentially benefit Aus, for the Ashes series.

 

[Matt79]

When particular patterns emerge that indicate a certain type of weakness in the team I think excuses such as poor selection become incredibly valid. I think the most frustrating thing about Australia's lack of success this year is that I believe, among a few others I guess, that our potential best XI is not out on the park due to a stubborn and often idiotic selection policy

North is the only one I'd agree with you about. Hussey has been poor, but with his record, it was reasonable they give him some time - time that after India I agree he has exhausted. Can't think of much that's been done wrong, IMO, on the bowlers front tbh.

 

[Matt79]

Na, I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I wasn't talking about the reasons we lost these games. I'm just saying the psychological impact of losing these games could potentially benefit Aus, for the Ashes series.

But you've not understood my implication - psychological impact are normally actually very neglible, compared to things like the quality of the bowler you're facing in the actual match, or the quality of the batsman you're trying to dismiss.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Being facetious, I'd say he bowls like he has no idea what makes him bowl well and bowl poorly and therefore no control over it. As such, it's unsurprising that pressure sometimes doesn't affect it, because he doesn't know what's he's doing anyway.

That said, wasn't the reason he forgot how to bowl in England in 09 because of off-field pressures?

I think he is a bit of a braindead bowler.If he had half the nous of a McGrath or a Gillespie he would be a worldbeater but he isn't because i think a bit like what gets levelled at Monty Panesar he hasn't got a good cricket brain.

As for what happened in 09,if a supposed fallout between your mum and girlfriend hits you that much then he is a very fragile person indeed.Families fallout all the time,you just get on with it.

 

[Ruckus]

Form >>>> determination to win.

It's not like it's a two-Test series against Bangladesh either; the players will already be pretty pumped for it. I don't think they'll need any extra motivation to win back the Ashes on home soil. Losing is just going to make them lack confidence.

I think that entirely depends on ones personality. I.e. some people give up easily, and some thrive on being determined to get better". I think more the point of what I was saying is the effect of these losses on England, not Australia.

 

[Lostman]

This series won't have much of an affect on the Ashes - If anything, it'll improve my price at the bookies!

My thoughts exactly. If Aus lose this series, going to get some nice odds for the ashes.

 

[GotSpin]

North is the only one I'd agree with you about. Hussey has been poor, but with his record, it was reasonable they give him some time - time that after India I agree he has exhausted. Can't think of much that's been done wrong, IMO, on the bowlers front tbh.

IMO, most of our test losses in recent times have come from issues in the middle order that have led to tremendous batting collapses. As such, the stubbornness of the selectors to retain North and Hussey has led to our downfall on a number of occasions. No two ways about it really.

I'd have dropped Hussey last summer. He's averaged in the mid 30s for three years running. North last year too.

The selectors haven't done too much wrong with the bowlers though.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think that entirely depends on ones personality. I.e. some people give up easily, and some thrive on being determined to get better". I think more the point of what I was saying is the effect of these losses on England, not Australia.

I don't think the players should really be able to get much more determined for this series, though. If they can get more determined then we have problems.

 

[Matt79]

I think he is a bit of a braindead bowler.If he had half the nous of a McGrath or a Gillespie he would be a worldbeater but he isn't because i think a bit like what gets levelled at Monty Panesar he hasn't got a good cricket brain.

As for what happened in 09,if a supposed fallout between your mum and girlfriend hits you that much then he is a very fragile person indeed.Families fallout all the time,you just get on with it.

The majority of bowlers in history haven't had half the nous of a McGrath tbh. That said, McGrath also had a technique that lent itself to easy repeatability and reliability. Johnson doesn't have that. The parts of his technique that have led to his success exist in conjunction with the factors that make him a trainwreck when he's off.

I agree to a point that he doesn't seem to be the kind of cunning bowler we've seen before, but I think he could be the mental combination of SF Barnes, Shane Warne, and Batman, and if his technique was the as it is now, he'd still regularly have periods where he couldn't get it to go where he wanted.

 

[Spark]

Johnson is a weird one. He never appears to get real fired up. Some of his best spells have come from nowhere. Maybe he is strong willed, but a guy capable of bowling at 145 k's should be a weapon if riled, Johnson is never like that. Sometimes he has the look of anger or determination, but I have never seen that translate into extra ability with the ball.

Nah, he occasionally gets fired up.

It just has no impact on his bowling, or it becomes even worse because he goes mad and gets even more erratic.

 

[Lostman]

Epic pic

 

[Ruckus]

But you've not understood my implication - psychological impact are normally actually very neglible, compared to things like the quality of the bowler you're facing in the actual match, or the quality of the batsman you're trying to dismiss.

I don't think I agree with that. While physical condition and amount of training etc. are undoubtedly important as well, I think pyschological aspects are of intergral importance.

Take something like 'form'. You have to ask what is different with a player who is 'in form' and 'out of form'? I would argue that the majority of the time it is the mental aspects which determine whether someone is in form or not.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Form >>>> determination to win.

It's not like it's a two-Test series against Bangladesh either; the players will already be pretty pumped for it. I don't think they'll need any extra motivation to win back the Ashes on home soil. Losing is just going to make them lack confidence.

The Aussie side will be pumped up no doubt about that,but if they lose the series to SL and Johnson has played all the games,is he going to be at the start of his run up in Brisbane full of confidence and happy with his own form? Possibly not as if you lose regularly you get doubts as to what you are doing,whether it is his run up,the way he is letting the ball go or anything else that may be in his head.You get tight and don't relax and we all know what he is like when he isn't relaxed,just see 09 in England.

Yes i know England have KP and Colly under pressure but the side has still been winning so they can back themselves to come out of their slump knowing they have players around them who are backing them up.At the minute the Aussie players don't have that,it may dramatically reappear but it needs to quickly or they may struggle more than they could ever have imagined.

 

[vic_orthdox]

IMO, most of our test losses in recent times have come from issues in the middle order that have led to tremendous batting collapses. As such, the stubbornness of the selectors to retain North and Hussey has led to our downfall on a number of occasions. No two ways about it really.

I'd have dropped Hussey last summer. He's averaged in the mid 30s for three years running. North last year too.

The selectors haven't done too much wrong with the bowlers though.

Right before, or after, the ton against Pakistan?

Or when he averaged 47 vs Windies?

 

[Ruckus]

I don't think the players should really be able to get much more determined for this series, though. If they can get more determined then we have problems.

Aus perhaps not. But England can definately underate Australia/be overly relaxed.

 

[Prince EWS]

The Aussie side will be pumped up no doubt about that,but if they lose the series to SL and Johnson has played all the games,is he going to be at the start of his run up in Brisbane full of confidence and happy with his own form? Possibly not as if you lose regularly you get doubts as to what you are doing,whether it is his run up,the way he is letting the ball go or anything else that may be in his head.

That was precisely my point.

Losing all these games and selecting players in formats they aren't good at is only going to break their confidence. It isn't going to make them any more determined - they should already be as determined as possible. It's winning back the Ashes on home soil FFS - they shouldn't need firing up for it.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Aus perhaps not. But England can definately underate Australia/be overly relaxed.

Not going to happen.The 5-0 will be in the captains mind and the fact we haven't won in Australia since 87.How can you be complacent when you haven't done all their is to do in the game.