Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Even "he's not really looked like taking many wickets this season for Hants"?
Despite, as I'm always keen to emphasise, the fact that he seems to have bowled more accurately than any stage previously in his career.
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***Official*** South Africa in England
- Thread starter TT Boy
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Despite, as I'm always keen to emphasise, the fact that he seems to have bowled more accurately than any stage previously in his career.
Uppercut
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Ooh, that's a very interesting one. Can't be written off as always being part of a good attack in county cricket.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
You sure?
Martin, Chapple, Austin, Cork, Anderson, Smith, Hogg, Muralitharan, Schofield, Yates, Keedy.
Just some of the bowlers he's bowled with at Lancs. I'd not want to bet against a few of his Lancs attacks being stronger than one or two of the Test ones of different times.
Martin, Chapple, Austin, Cork, Anderson, Smith, Hogg, Muralitharan, Schofield, Yates, Keedy.
Just some of the bowlers he's bowled with at Lancs. I'd not want to bet against a few of his Lancs attacks being stronger than one or two of the Test ones of different times.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
He certainly had ample opportunity to carry the attack in Australia and pick up 5/120 regularly, and he failed to do so. I'd certainly say an attack of Harmison, Hoggard with no swing, Anderson returning from injury with no swing / Mahmood and Giles returning from injury / Panesar "needed carrying". While he bowled okay, the exact problem that people are speaking of occurred; he just couldn't lead the attack.
He's one of the best support bowlers in the world but he's by no means a natural attack-leader at Test level.
He's one of the best support bowlers in the world but he's by no means a natural attack-leader at Test level.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
It may be true but I refuse to hear it.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
No, he's not, and his lack of return at The WACA and The MCG especially was hugely disappointing.
Nonetheless, I can't completely ignore the fact that his ankle was generally said to never be trouble-free.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Would be hard to beat Patterson, Walsh and Garner.
Uppercut
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It will have played a part obviously. But 1 in 101? Surely that statistic is too big and juicy to be written off in any way shape or form.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Oh, it is certainly - like in Tests, it's truly remarkable how his best haul is five. He's never, once, taken six or seven. A bowler like him, you'd expect more than that. But as-a-rule, Lancashire's bowling-attack has been a class above that of other counties, and of times up to Test strength, during his career.
Interesting, BTW, to look at that one instance of him taking five in a domestic First-Class game. The rest of the attack was Martin, Chapple, Austin, Murali. I'd bet that betters most Test attacks he's played with during the time he should have been playing (2001/02-2006/07) apart from the one of 2004 and 2005.
Interesting, BTW, to look at that one instance of him taking five in a domestic First-Class game. The rest of the attack was Martin, Chapple, Austin, Murali. I'd bet that betters most Test attacks he's played with during the time he should have been playing (2001/02-2006/07) apart from the one of 2004 and 2005.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well the obvious thing is to see how many 5-fers the others have and compare it with Flintoff, I can't be arsed so I'll leave you to do it.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Martin 17
Chapple 26
Austin 6
Cork 32
Anderson 13
Smith 0
Hogg 1
Mulali 115
Schofield 5
Yates 5
Keedy 23
Uppercut
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Hmm, four of the five were the bottom four wickets to fall though.
I think it's quite clear that England expect too much of him. But nonetheless, two top-order wickets and 25 slogged runs may well be enough to inspire the rest of the team and lead them to a win. I can't help but think his influential ability has been a bit overstated of late too, though...
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I think "for Lancs" would be a bit more instructive, mind.
Obviously Martin and Chapple I imagine it'll be exclusive, but Cork and Murali will presumably have taken most of theirs for Derbyshire and Sri Lanka.
superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
so....not much chance of any serious play today, forecast looks turd till Monday....on to Edgbaston...if we don't get a winner there it might be a 0-0 draw this series
pasag
RTDAS
Decided to check this out because I could, maybe you didn't call it a poor decision as such but you certainly didn't look too happy:
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=1201736&postcount=1709
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=1203295&postcount=1789
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=1204523&postcount=1823
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Oh, certainly I wouldn't have made the selection myself, I'm not saying it was obvious and I was saying it was obvious all along - Sidebottom when he turned-up at Headingley was a far better bowler than I'd imagined he was going to be or I'd ever seen him be before. And certainly than he was in 2001.
But compared to the selections of Plunkett et al, I was ecstatic.
BTW, was going to search for those posts myself TBH just to see exactly what I was saying, figured I could leave it to you tho.
But compared to the selections of Plunkett et al, I was ecstatic.
BTW, was going to search for those posts myself TBH just to see exactly what I was saying, figured I could leave it to you tho.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Well I'll let you do the research on that if you can be bothered.
But you can consider Martin, Chapple and Austin who have, between them, taken 49 times more 5-fers for Lancashire than Fred.
Your argument that Fred has bowled in strong bowling line-ups for Lancs can't explain why, to take one striking and rather podgy example, Ian Austin has managed 6 times more 5-fers than him while operating as part of the same attack.
The fact is that Fred's bowling stats belie his reputation as one of the world's best fast bowlers.
Not sure if I can give any convincing explanation but I'll try:
1. Early in his career he wasn't used as a strike bowler (but cf Ian Austin and his 6 5-fers)
2. Perhaps his back-of-a-length style, while hard to score off, is relatively easy to defend.
3. Perhaps more recently opposition batsmen have tended to try to see him off before feasting on the richer pickings on offer from Anderson, Mahmood, et al?
4. He doesn't get much lateral movement. I know that you (Richard) think he does, but I disagree. I haven't seen him ever get much orthodox swing. And importantly such movement as he does get tends to be in to the right-hander rather than away.
Zinzan
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And the truth comes outDecided to check this out because I could, maybe you didn't call it a poor decision as such but you certainly didn't look too happy:
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=1201736&postcount=1709
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=1203295&postcount=1789
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=1204523&postcount=1823
