*Official* South Africa in England Thread

[Rik]

However a sound was clearly audible, and he had the advantage of looking straight at it.

Until Ch4 turned up the stump mic there was no sound. The shot Stewart was playing immediately suggested to me that Taufel gave him out hitting the ground with his bat.

 

[marc71178]

First run of it, the sound was there, and my immediate reaction was he hit the ground, however Mr Taufel was standing level with it, and would've heard the noise, seen the bat hadn't hit the ground, and that the ball was away from anything except the bat.

 

[Craig]

If Flintoff scores runs against Murali and Vaas in Sri Lanka, then I will reconsider my opinion on him. Pretorious lacks accuracy while Zondeki I think needs to work on his action.

I hope Kirsten doesnt retire.

 

[Bazza]

It doesn't prove anything Craig, but Flintoff is ranked 49th in test batting (up 9 places) and 56th in test bowling (+5). In ODIs he is ranked 31st in batting and 10th in bowling, and the third best all rounder behind Kallis and Gayle.

 

[Rik]

I think LE's going to like this...

I went on Teletext page 450 to check up on the cricket news and I see the usual "Thorpe's back for the Oval" when they don't pick the squad for a while yet. But it wasn't the impending return of Thorpey for Nass that grabbed my attention, it was the suggestion that England's next all-round (can bat, can't bowl) sensation Rikki Clarke could come in for Ed Smith! True to form Rikki celebrated this news by getting in the way of a straight ball from Glenn Chappel, who obviously annoyed at being in the England Test Squad one minute and out the next, decided to take it out on the lanky Surrey all-rounder (doesn't appear to be able to bat either). Clarke scored 1 off 4 balls. Maybe next time Rikki (not for the 1st time either).

 

[marc71178]

Do I guess that we agree that selecting him would be wrong then Rik?

 

[Rik]

Do I guess that we agree that selecting him would be wrong then Rik?

Well, he's supposed to be an "All-Rounder" yet his bowling is about as consistant as Butcher's slip catching at the moment, he's got the luxury of having Ramps, Thorpe, Ali Brown, Ian Ward, Adam Hollioake around him who usually score runs and take the pressure off him. Yes, it would be a big mistake, especially as I'm interisted to see what Smith does when he comes upon a good pitch for once, though I just wish he had not played that sliced drive in the 2nd innings :!( it's obvious he's got the ability and technique to succeed, but at the moment he needs to control those nerves which I feel is the reason he's struggled (ignoring the ball Kallis gave him to get him out the 1st ball of the day, a beut before you get your eye in can't really be helped)

 

[The Argonaut]

From what I've heard the English press has been giving it to Vaughan and the boys after their latest defeat. The same press that was lauding them after their recent win. They're a fickle bunch aren't they.

I just hope they give Vaughan time to determine his style of captaincy. He will be learning all the time and even Steve Waugh took time to come good. Look at him now.

Let's also not forget that South Africa are one of the better sides in world cricket. They can give anyone a touch up on their day. The selectors probably erred by picking 5 seamers and one of them aging at that. The captain can only deal with what he's been given.

Insetad of getting stuck into Vaughan about his comments on county cricket, maybe they should have a good look first to see if they have some merit. Does county cricket produce battle hardened, match fit, mentally tough cricketers. Do players have the time in between games to get serious coaching during the season.

 

[Craig]

I'm not too worried about world rankings Baaza, I dont think they mean much.

Murali and Vaas are very good bowlerss in both forms of the game, and so he is likely to be trouble him. South Africa's bowling isnt that good with the exception of a few players (Kallis, Pollock).

And you must remember Flintoff doesnt have a good record in the subcontentient with the bat. An average of 5.20 isnt good, so he has a lot to prove.

 

[marc71178]

I'm not too worried about world rankings Baaza, I dont think they mean much.

Apart from which players are performing and which aren't?

If they don't mean much why does an international firm of Accountants spend so much money sponsoring them?

Murali and Vaas are very good bowlerss in both forms of the game, and so he is likely to be trouble him. South Africa's bowling isnt that good with the exception of a few players (Kallis, Pollock).

You what? SA's bowling is far superior to that of SL, who are basically Murali, plus Vaas a bit behind and no-one else.

And you must remember Flintoff doesnt have a good record in the subcontentient with the bat. An average of 5.20 isnt good, so he has a lot to prove.

An average based one a whole 3 games is not enough to make any judgment. His batting when he toured the sub-continent is about 2 years ago, when he was less mature (and also playing as an opening bowler rather than number 7 and 3rd/4th seamer)

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

why does an international firm of Accountants spend so much money sponsoring them?

Advertising?

 

[luckyeddie]

I think LE's going to like this...

I went on Teletext page 450 to check up on the cricket news and I see the usual "Thorpe's back for the Oval" when they don't pick the squad for a while yet. But it wasn't the impending return of Thorpey for Nass that grabbed my attention, it was the suggestion that England's next all-round (can bat, can't bowl) sensation Rikki Clarke could come in for Ed Smith! True to form Rikki celebrated this news by getting in the way of a straight ball from Glenn Chappel, who obviously annoyed at being in the England Test Squad one minute and out the next, decided to take it out on the lanky Surrey all-rounder (doesn't appear to be able to bat either). Clarke scored 1 off 4 balls. Maybe next time Rikki (not for the 1st time either).

I think he's pudding. The duck thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread

<quack> Look up 'bathos' in the dictionary

I thought you kept saying he's 'not a bad cricketer'

<quack> I said 'bathos', not 'litotes'

Sorry, folks. The duck's into Greek drama at the moment

<quack> I'm reading Homer at the moment

Mmmmmm donuts

<quack> Not THAT Homer

Sorry

 

[Craig]

1/If they don't mean much why does an international firm of Accountants spend so much money sponsoring them?

2/You what? SA's bowling is far superior to that of SL, who are basically Murali, plus Vaas a bit behind and no-one else.

3/An average based one a whole 3 games is not enough to make any judgment. His batting when he toured the sub-continent is about 2 years ago, when he was less mature (and also playing as an opening bowler rather than number 7 and 3rd/4th seamer)

1/ Advertising? I dont know why they would sponsor them for, except for advertising. and you of all people should know that rankings dont give a true picture.

2/ Pollock and Kallis are South Africa's two best bowlers. Ntini despite his wickets has a trouble with accuracy at times in Tests. It is one thing to be taking wickets, but you can just bowl a lot of bad balls. And yes I have seen quite a bit of Ntini this series. Hall is ok except that his seam positon isnt always straight and Pretorious as with Ntini is not accurate.

3/ So? It still showed his deficancy against spin in the sub-contentient.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

It wasn't long ago that some people were downplaying Kallis as a bowler...

 

[Mr. P]

Which is ridiculous.:!( Kallis is a class bowler, and along with the role he carries with the bat, that makes him even better.

 

[marc71178]

Which is ridiculous.:!( Kallis is a class bowler, and along with the role he carries with the bat, that makes him even better.

He's a good bowler yes, but he's not that great - he is certainly a useful 4th or sometimes 3rd seamer, but nowhere near as good as some of the other bowlers around.

What relevance does his batting have on how good a bowler he is?

 

[marc71178]

2/ Pollock and Kallis are South Africa's two best bowlers. Ntini despite his wickets has a trouble with accuracy at times in Tests. It is one thing to be taking wickets, but you can just bowl a lot of bad balls. And yes I have seen quite a bit of Ntini this series. Hall is ok except that his seam positon isnt always straight and Pretorious as with Ntini is not accurate.

Ntini is a far better bowler than Kallis - if not, then how come he takes the new ball? When you open with the best bowler in the world who is extremely tight, then you can afford to give away a few runs if you take wickets, and that is what Ntini does, 122 of them in 35 games at an average of 1 every 9 overs.

Kallis has 148 in 68 games (so 26 more in almost twice the number of games) and takes them every 10 and a bit overs.

To suggest Kallis is the superior bowler is ludicrous.

3/ So? It still showed his deficancy against spin in the sub-contentient.

It's based on 3 games when he was a completely different player to what he is now.

Writing someone off after just 3 games a long time ago as a bowler who can bat (rather than now when he is playing 2 roles and both of them with a fair bit of success and maturity) is stupid, and doesn't show anything about how well he may do in the future.

 

[luckyeddie]

Ntini despite his wickets has a trouble with accuracy at times in Tests. It is one thing to be taking wickets, but you can just bowl a lot of bad balls. And yes I have seen quite a bit of Ntini this series.

It is more than one thing to take wickets in test cricket - it is the ONLY thing for a fast bowler. Sure, he's going to disappear at 4, 5 or more an over on occasion but who the hell cares? That's why you have trundlers in a side too (and when your trundlers are great players like Kallis and Pollock, you're on a winner).

 

[Craig]

I'm sure that Ntini and Greame Smith care that he goes at 4,5 runs an over on occasions.

 

[marc71178]

I'm sure that Ntini and Greame Smith care that he goes at 4,5 runs an over on occasions.

On occasions, all bowlers go at 4.5 an over.

Over his career he goes at 3.14 an over.

When you consider how quickly teams seems to score at Test level nowadays, it doesn't look too bad at all, and makes a mockery of comments you've made saying he has trouble with accuracy.