***Official*** South Africa In Australia

[Prince EWS]

Hayden's past performances have obviously given him a lot of credit in the bank, but surely there has to be a limit to selectorial genorosity?

Yeah, and I don't think we're even close to that point yet, TBH. As I said before, I don't think it'd be an issue if he wasn't over 35 or Australia wasn't losing - people are just looking for a scapegoat. It's been blown way out of proportion.

 

[stephen]

What crime has Noffke committed?

I thought that this was interesting:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24373448-23212,00.html

This moreso:

http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/dec/31/ashley-noffke-skin-cancer-melanoma/

 

[Chimpdaddy]

Can someone please explain why Australian selectors are sticking with Siddle? Tbh he has not really impressed me. He bowls one or two good sessions, and is pretty much useless the rest of the time. With a dead rubber coming up, why not play both Hilfenhaus and Bollinger?

When are Hayden's chances going to run out? If he fails in Sydney are we going to drop him? He seems bent on sticking around until the next Ashes series.

-Chimpdaddy-

 

[pup11]

Yes the selectors have been pretty foolish this year. But of that list only Symonds treatment & Casson been picked for the West Indies tour ahead of McGain plus White's selection in India are the real shocker. Hopefully i won't be adding the selection of McDonald in a few days.

Bollinger - well he deserves to debut in a few days no doubt. Before not really although its debatable.

Krejza - was rightly picked when he was & was rightly dropped IMO. No issue with the selectors on him.

Noffke - I buy the reasoning the selectors gave for not picking him for India. He's injured now because i believe he would have played this summer

Watson - the big man himself lol. The selectors were right not to pick him initally for the the SA series, but its clear now when fit again he has to bat @ 6 since Australia needs to play with 5 bowlers.

I think a lot of hue and cry is being made about Casson being picked wrongly ahead of McGain for the West Indian series, but i don't think that is the real issue at all, MacGill at that point was expected to play atleast till the Ashes and obviously if that had happened prospects of an international career would have all but over for McGain, so the selectors obviously felt it would be a good experience for young Casson ( who is the only half-decent wrist spinner in Australia) to be on tour, but MacGill' retirement all of a sudden changed all that.

What happened though thereafter in Casson' case is shambolic, despite being the only spinner with a central contract, White eventually was picked ahead of him to play out the spin duties in India, same goes with Krejza, in his case too it seems as if they just picked him out of the blue and despite his amazing debut it just took one game for the selectors to realise that they have made a mistake, so all in all this kind of selection policy doesn't make any sense, you only hand over a test cap to players who you think have the potential to come good and as a selector one is required to have that eye for a talent, but atm the Aussie selectors seem to be just about handing over anyone with a test cap or a central contract in hope that eventually some of them might come good.

 

[pup11]

What crime has Noffke committed?

Noffke had acted like an idiot and questioned his non-selection for the tour of India despite being in gun form in domestic cricket, i understand his frustration but he should have shown a bit more patience, with the amount of cricket Aussies are scheduled to play he surely would have got his fair share of chances, hell.... if he were fit now there could have been a real chance of him being picked as the bowling all-rounder, but by questioning the selectors publicly he might have just about killed the chances of him playing international cricket.

 

[stephen]

Noffke had acted like an idiot and questioned his non-selection for the tour of India despite being in gun form in domestic cricket, i understand his frustration but he should have shown a bit more patience, with the amount of cricket Aussies are scheduled to play he surely would have got his fair share of chances, hell.... if he were fit now there could have been a real chance of him being picked as the bowling all-rounder, but by questioning the selectors publicly he might have just about killed the chances of him playing international cricket.

It doesn't matter that he was right?

The constant non-selection of Noffke was always strange to me. He's a test quality player. At least as good as what Kasper was in his prime, probably better.

 

[social]

Noffke had acted like an idiot and questioned his non-selection for the tour of India despite being in gun form in domestic cricket, i understand his frustration but he should have shown a bit more patience, with the amount of cricket Aussies are scheduled to play he surely would have got his fair share of chances, hell.... if he were fit now there could have been a real chance of him being picked as the bowling all-rounder, but by questioning the selectors publicly he might have just about killed the chances of him playing international cricket.

Noffke might have been foolish but it is simply another example of the selectors putting bias/ego etc before country

**** them off for non-performance and let's move on

 

[pup11]

It doesn't matter that he was right?

The constant non-selection of Noffke was always strange to me. He's a test quality player. At least as good as what Kasper was in his prime, probably better.

Not debating that at all, but he didn't help his cause by questioning the selectors publicly, because throughout the cricketing globe its a well know fact that selectors don't like their own players question their judgment, its not right but that's how it is.

 

[social]

Fortunately I was on a beach in the Maldives and hardly saw a ball bowled in this test BUT

WTF were Symonds and Lee picked for if they were unfit?

Leaving a team with 3 bowlers with a combined total of 20 tests between them was simply suicide

Heads should roll amongst the selection panel and management as this decision probably cost Oz the test (4/5 fit bowlers and the chances of SA making 250 after being 7/170 in their first dig were remote)

Rant over, it's down to the beach in Dubai and a few beers on New Years Eve

Have a good one everybody

 

[Redbacks]

Noffke had acted like an idiot and questioned his non-selection for the tour of India despite being in gun form in domestic cricket, i understand his frustration but he should have shown a bit more patience, with the amount of cricket Aussies are scheduled to play he surely would have got his fair share of chances, hell.... if he were fit now there could have been a real chance of him being picked as the bowling all-rounder, but by questioning the selectors publicly he might have just about killed the chances of him playing international cricket.

It seems like a set in stone principle of CA, that if any players questions selection publicly, they get a black mark through their name, unless of course they perform so well they have to be given at least another chance. I.e. Elliot after that great season with Victoria in 03/04. Even then he got a charity spot for the top end tour.

I think the IPL or ICL may just entice these players to turn their back on the cause and as a result, depth and competition for places will be diminished to the detriment of the national team.

 

[pup11]

Fortunately I was on a beach in the Maldives and hardly saw a ball bowled in this test BUT

WTF were Symonds and Lee picked for if they were unfit?
Leaving a team with 3 bowlers with a combined total of 20 tests between them was simply suicide

Heads should roll amongst the selection panel and management as this decision probably cost Oz the test (4/5 fit bowlers and the chances of SA making 250 after being 7/170 in their first dig were remote)

Rant over, it's down to the beach in Dubai and a few beers on New Years Eve

Have a good one everybody

I don't think Lee was unfit before the game, this injury probably took place during the game itself and really in a lot of ways that sums up the kind of last 4 months Lee has had, but there are no excuses for picking an injured Symonds, and that was a diabolical move, but as much as the selectors are to be blamed for this, i think Symonds too is equally guilty, he should have never played with an injury like that.

 

[tooextracool]

Really? Well, if that's the hole the SA top order can get itself into when they're not playing silly shots...God help them if they get a rush of blood. Twice they got themselves into bad positions in the first innings only to dig themselves out in the second. The Australian bowling wasn't good enough to take wickets in the second innings both times, I'll grant you that, but SA didn't exactly take the game by the scruff of the throat with their first innings knocks. Fortunately Australia have come right back to the field and they can get away with it this time around.

South Africa werent playing silly shots? Thats news to me. Perhaps you need to rewatch the Kallis dismissal from the first inning. Losing wickets to Johnson and Hauritz is almost inevitably down to poor or unnecessary strokes. Australia without Clark currently have one of the worst bowling attacks going around in the world, and theres no getting away from that IMO.

And you'd add another bowler who bowls it all over the place to the line up with Johnson? Wasn't your initial problem with him that he doesn't bowl enough balls on stumps? Selecting Tait will hardly fix the problem, did you miss his first few test efforts?

Johnson doesnt 'bowl it all over the place' nor did I claim that he did. He just doesnt bowl on the stumps theres a difference. He has been fairly economical for most of his career and instead of picking defensive bowlers Australia would be better off picking someone who can actually take wickets. I dont rate Tait, but its painfully obvious that he and Bracken are far more likely to win Australia test matches than Johnson and Hauritz. And a glance at the record of the latest player in the selection merry go round suggests that McDonald is going to be another joke selection over someone like Dave Hussey.

 

[tooextracool]

We managed for years with warne in the team. It's a rule of the game and needs to be respected. Ponting got his butt kicked in India on overrates to the point where he bowled Hussey and White. Teams should be factoring it into their selection - to do otherwise is to seek an advantage by breaching a rule.

Name one international team that regularly gets 90 overs done in a game without a spinner

England more or less managed it while having a 4 man pace attack with Giles on occasions where he rarely bowled much. It can be done IMO, and if Australia really wanted a rubbish bowler to get through their overs quickly they dont need to look any further than Clarke or Katich who are more likely to develop into test match quality spinners than Hauritz.

 

[Son Of Coco]

South Africa werent playing silly shots? Thats news to me. Perhaps you need to rewatch the Kallis dismissal from the first inning. Losing wickets to Johnson and Hauritz is almost inevitably down to poor or unnecessary strokes. Australia without Clark currently have one of the worst bowling attacks going around in the world, and theres no getting away from that IMO.



Johnson doesnt 'bowl it all over the place' nor did I claim that he did. He just doesnt bowl on the stumps theres a difference. He has been fairly economical for most of his career and instead of picking defensive bowlers Australia would be better off picking someone who can actually take wickets. I dont rate Tait, but its painfully obvious that he and Bracken are far more likely to win Australia test matches than Johnson and Hauritz. And a glance at the record of the latest player in the selection merry go round suggests that McDonald is going to be another joke selection over someone like Dave Hussey.

You said this "bowl tight and hope that batsmen will play stupid shots. Well this isnt NZ or the WI and thats not going to happen", so I was pointing out that it obviously did happen.

I think you've noted earlier that you don't understand the difference the angle a left-handed bowler can make. Watching Tait in previous tests nothing's painfully obvious at all, except that he'll likely to either hit middle stump or the square leg umpire. Johnson bowled someone the other day, so unless there were 12 stumps in the ground, he must come close on occasions Johnson's not brilliant, but he's not the problem with the bowling outfit.

You're basically talking up two guys as proven wicket-takers in tests when they're anything but that. I'd be all for giving Bracken another go...but not Tait right now. I think Siddle would be a much better option, at least he's capable of getting it in and around the stumps and creating enough movement to cause problems...and at speed.

I'm not saying the Australian selectors haven't made mistakes by the way. There are some strange selections.

 

[pup11]

South Africa werent playing silly shots? Thats news to me. Perhaps you need to rewatch the Kallis dismissal from the first inning. Losing wickets to Johnson and Hauritz is almost inevitably down to poor or unnecessary strokes. Australia without Clark currently have one of the worst bowling attacks going around in the world, and theres no getting away from that IMO.



Johnson doesnt 'bowl it all over the place' nor did I claim that he did. He just doesnt bowl on the stumps theres a difference. He has been fairly economical for most of his career and instead of picking defensive bowlers Australia would be better off picking someone who can actually take wickets. I dont rate Tait, but its painfully obvious that he and Bracken are far more likely to win Australia test matches than Johnson and Hauritz. And a glance at the record of the latest player in the selection merry go round suggests that McDonald is going to be another joke selection over someone like Dave Hussey.

What's new with that mate, whenever the South African batsmen get tied down by spin, sweep is there go to shot, and that's what they exactly did against Hauritz, and Hauritz was good enough to bowl in the right areas to get them out, and the myth that is existent that Johnson gets all his wickets with poop balls is bull****, he has been bowling brilliantly for a few months now and deserves all the success that's coming his way.

The problem like you are pointing towards isn't really Hauritz or Johnson' bowling, the real problem have the other two quicks who have been very much off the boil, and if anyone needs to replaced then it has to be them.

 

[longtom]

Interesting passage in Neil Manthorp's diary on the Supersport website:

"Sunday, December 28

...
Warne's question about Katich's bowling is put to vice-captain Michael Clarke after play: "I am not consulted about bowling changes and have no say in the matter," he says.

"But you are vice-captain," continues his questioner.

"Yes, but you'll have to ask the captain about the bowling changes."

Bloody hell. Discord in the ranks? In Australia? As several Proteas have mentioned, this is the quietest and least bonded Aussie team ever to face South Africa.
..."

I know, no team likes to loose...but that from the vice captain?...

Any of the Aussie care to comment?

 

[Ikki]

Considering most of the bowling line-up plus Haddin is new, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they aren't bonded like what we used to be. The likes of Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, Taylor, S Waugh, et al were men bonded together by the fires of success and failure. Even if they didn't get along there was a connection. It'll take time.

Personally, I think I am, as an Aussie fan, a bit more relaxed than most. I think people thought this Aussie team would instantly click, and I think that was stupid to assume. Yes, they are highly talented - in fact, I'd say they are still potentially the best team in the world, there is a pool of talent in Australia that is capable of making it in the Test arena. Yes, they're still strong. But patience is needed and not changes for the sake of changes and decisions based on rolls of the dice. Test cricket is a game for those who wait, and it's not any different here.

 

[pasag]

Interesting passage in Neil Manthorp's diary on the Supersport website:

"Sunday, December 28

...
Warne's question about Katich's bowling is put to vice-captain Michael Clarke after play: "I am not consulted about bowling changes and have no say in the matter," he says.

"But you are vice-captain," continues his questioner.

"Yes, but you'll have to ask the captain about the bowling changes."

Bloody hell. Discord in the ranks? In Australia? As several Proteas have mentioned, this is the quietest and least bonded Aussie team ever to face South Africa.
..."

I know, no team likes to loose...but that from the vice captain?...

Any of the Aussie care to comment?

I posted earlier that I heard Clarke on the radio and he was asked the same question and he said that he went up to Katich and asked him if he could bowl and he said Katich told him that he hadn't practiced in the nets recently or something like that. Now, those seem like two pretty different answers to the exact same question...

 

[pasag]

Considering most of the bowling line-up plus Haddin is new, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they aren't bonded like what we used to be. The likes of Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, Taylor, S Waugh, et al were men bonded together by the fires of success and failure. Even if they didn't get along there was a connection. It'll take time.

Personally, I think I am, as an Aussie fan, a bit more relaxed than most. I think people thought this Aussie team would instantly click, and I think that was stupid to assume. Yes, they are highly talented - in fact, I'd say they are still potentially the best team in the world, there is a pool of talent in Australia that is capable of making it in the Test arena. Yes, they're still strong. But patience is needed and not changes for the sake of changes and decisions based on rolls of the dice. Test cricket is a game for those who wait, and it's not any different here.

Yeah, it's exciting times ahead and if we rebuild well and regain the number one it'll be all the more memorable.

 

[Goughy]

I posted earlier that I heard Clarke on the radio and he was asked the same question and he said that he went up to Katich and asked him if he could bowl and he said Katich told him that he hadn't practiced in the nets recently or something like that. Now, those seem like two pretty different answers to the exact same question...

What the hell?
It shouldnt be "Can you bowl?", "No, Ive not practiced recently", "Ok, then"

It should be "You are bowling"

There is no negotiating on these matters. Capains (tbh vice-captains less so) need the officer mentality not the buddy mentality.