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Official Rugby Thread

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Indeed, rugby is huge in SA, even if soccer is considered the official 'national sport' there. stphndbsn - what would you say is bigger between cricket & rugby in SA.
Cricket is bigger than rugby in SA. Also more importantly it is played across a wide demographic of the country. Whereas rugby is currently concentrated, it is changing but has a smaller base from which to grow. Rugby has more monies available than cricket though.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Kaino was awesome as usual against Argentina.

It's very predictable - against any big, powerful forward pack he's invariably the AB MVP.
 

Zinzan

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Cricket is bigger than rugby in SA. Also more importantly it is played across a wide demographic of the country. Whereas rugby is currently concentrated, it is changing but has a smaller base from which to grow. Rugby has more monies available than cricket though.
Interesting, cheers.
 

Zinzan

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It's definitely behind (in no particular order) rugby league, aussie rules, cricket and football in terms of popularity among viewers

If we include womens sport, netball will also be running it close soon

What's more, general participation rates dont make great reading either and you can see it is a niche sport that doesnt rank in the top 20 in Australia

The Top 20 sports played by Aussies kids and adults - Roy Morgan Research
I knew Rugby league would gets much bigger audiences due to have 14 sides (or whatever it is ) in the NRL, but at the international level Rugby would still out-do the fairly lame Rugby league international calendar, surely.
 

Zinzan

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The Immortals of Rugby Union

Colin Meads
Frik du Preez
Gareth Edwards
David Campese
Serge Blanco
Richie McCaw
Pretty hard to disagree with any of these, although I would suggest Campese is a little lucky, I clearly don't rate him quite as highly as you.

Interested whether he is considered their greatest ever rugby player in Australian rugby circles... I'd suggest Eales, Ella, Far-Jones would have a decent case wouldn't they?
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Pretty hard to disagree with any of these, although I would suggest Campese is a little lucky, I clearly don't rate him quite as highly as you.

Interested whether he is considered their greatest ever rugby player in Australian rugby circles... I'd suggest Eales, Ella, Far-Jones would have a decent case wouldn't they?
If Mark Ella enjoyed a long career, he probably would have become the greatest rugby player Australia has ever produced. I know some Australian writers, David Lord for example, who would say he is Australia's best ever played. I think Ella could have become the best five-eighth ever... but he retired.

David Campese is held to different standards than most rugby players, in my opinion. For example, Campese is known for taking risks and sometimes making mistakes. But Ella did too! Mark Ella's kicking coul be foul sometimes. In his early career he couldn't kick a ball to save his life. By 1984 he was good at it. Ella also took risks, like running the ball out of his own 22 against England in 1982, getting caught by Winterbottom, turning the ball over, and letting England score a try that won them the Test. Ella was every little bit of a risk-taker as Campese, and he made stupid mistakes.

Serge Blanco is the same. He made mistakes all the time! He was frequently caught out of position and tried things that never work, but he never gets criticised for it. Honestly, Blanco and Campese are about the same in their approach to the game. Blanco was a better tackler, obviously. But Campo won Australia a World Cup.

Nick Farr-Jones... if there's one position where Australia has constantly produced excellent players - it's halfback. Most Aussies rate Catchpole their best ever halfback. One Aussie, Peter Crittle, thinks that he's the greatest Wallaby of all-time. But Catchpole isn't an immortal like Gareth Edwards is. Interestingly, Chris Laidlaw, in his book, rates Catchpole a far greater player than Edwards. John Hipwell is another... some rate him better than NFJ. But Hipwell played when Australia were a joke, and couldn't enjoy much success. So no, I don't put NFJ up there.

The best shot is John Eales, IMO, because he has no obvious flaws, has a winning record against NZ, played a long career, etc. He was voted Australia's Player of the Century in 2003, so he's a shot. Is he as legendary as Meads or du Preez?

The thing about Campo is: Australia would not have won the 1991 World Cup without David Campese. John Eales made a famous tackle on Rob Andrew in the WC Final, and Eales put up staggering line-out figures against the Welsh - but he wasn't the star. David Campese was clearly the Player of the Tournament.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Zinzan,

Let me put it to you this way: What did Serge Blanco do to *** ******* that David Campese didn't?

With Campo, I think of what he did to Stu Wilson in 1982 - taking on the world's best winger and making him look silly. I think of his diagonal run that turned Kirwan inside-out, and the no-look-pass to Horan. Nick Farr-Jones once said that people completely forget that Campese is a world-record holder for tries (yes, a Japanese rugby player overtook him - I don't count him). For many years, Campo held the record for most tries against *** *******, until Ashley-Cooper overtook him (after playing a lot more matches against NZ than Campo ever did).

Serge Blanco's two most famous moments, I think, are against Australia. One with his try in the 1987 semi-final and his solo-run in 1990 where he out-sprinted all of Australia's outside backs, including Campo, to score the try of his career. Granted, Blanco didn't play *** ******* that much. But I don't recall him doing anything that would make him stand out as much as Campo. Is Blanco the world-record holder for tries?

Nick Farr-Jones once said it, that people who criticise Campese completely forget that he's scored more tries than any other player in history
 

Zinzan

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I've explained before ..the likes of Kirwan & Inga both made Campo look like a goose on occasions, even if I acknowledge Campo did the same to us a few times in means he's automatically below the top 5-6 immortals of all-time....I'm not saying Blanco never had a bad game either, but I don't recall him being made to look like a goose the way Campo did. Besides, while I don't strongly object to Blanco, I'm not entirely sure he's on of the top 5-6 of all time either... but there's a better argument for him over Campo..
 
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Zinzan

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Incidentally ... this is why they need weight divisions even at under 9s level.... lol this is crazy (even if it is actually rugby league :p)


 

ripper868

International Coach
Weight Divisions Schmeight divisions. There's always a bigger fish.

Breyton Paulse and Shane Williams never complained.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
I've explained before ..the likes of Kirwan & Inga both made Campo look like a goose on occasions, even if I acknowledge Campo did the same to us a few times in means he's automatically below the top 5-6 immortals of all-time....I'm not saying Blanco never had a bad game either, but I don't recall him being made to look like a goose the way Campo did. Besides, while I don't strongly object to Blanco, I'm not entirely sure he's on of the top 5-6 of all time either... but there's a better argument for him over Campo..
For what it's worth, maybe Campo and Blanco shouldn't be apart of that list. I just think they both typify the spirit of their country's rugby. Both had flaws, took risks, made mistakes...

I've long felt that the five greatest rugby players of all time - in no order - are: Frik du Preez; Colin Meads; Gareth Edwards; Richie McCaw; Michael Jones.

McCaw kind of eclipsed Jones as the all-time best openside flanker, so it's hard to include him as one of the Immortals.

Admitting that three of the five best rugby players who ever played were from *** ******* feels about as pleasant munching on sharp pieces of glass dipped in liquid arsenic.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Those huge dudes become **** because they never develop proper rugby skills. So many cases of this.
It's insane that there are no weight classes for junior rugby

What's more, in Australia, local kids have to furnish a birth certificate whilst those of islander origin do not (often dont have them anyway) and other means of testing age are discouraged as it is deemed "racist" to even enquire

As a consequence, you have complete size mismatches and many parents simply pull their kids out & put them in another sport
 

Zinzan

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This is nothing new, either. I remember captaining my school (generally white school) rugby league team against a school from South Auckland, NZ who visited. The mis-match of size across what were essentially 12-13 year old kids was just ridiculous.

They absolutely trounced us & it was like men playing boys, much to the entertainment of our supporters watching that game who joked about how funny it looked for years afterwards.

Generalisation of course, but many of those pacific island kids develop so fast and so young, it's not surprised parents would look at other sports for young Tommy.
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
For some reason it never bothered me. Hell, I actually liked it - for a start I learned how to tackle guys twice my size. I took this perverse pride in it. And hell, if you watch that video, none of those kids are actually tackling properly.

Actually, the only time it was ever an issue was one game when I was 11. I'd become so used to tackling big guys that I essentially had no fear at all. Ironically, there was an Australian team visiting and they had freaking Os Du Randt running around on the wing. I charged in to tackle him, got a knee to the head and was concussed. I was so gutted I missed the tackle that I quite playing rugby for another 3 years.
 

Zinzan

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I'm similar to you in that respect in that I also saw it as a challenge, but it's parents who don't always see it that way and that's the bigger point which can impact playing numbers, and early defections to other sports . It will never really be an issue in NZ for obvious reasons, but in Australia the rugbys and leagues of this world might lose more of these young nippers to the likes of football etc. and i think that's the point social was making.

FTR, that was actually rugby league in Australia that clip... not sure if rugby is any different there at junior levels and whether they have weight restrictions.
 
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the big bambino

International Captain
The reason none of those kids can tackle properly is because he's too big. I don't imagine they could properly tackle an adult either. Produce birth certificates or get placed in an age group more representative of your size.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Zinzan,

Here's the all-time All Blacks XV I really want to see...

1. John Ashworth
2. Anton Oliver
3. John Drake
4. Graeme Higginson
5. Todd Blackadder
6. Mike Brewer
7. Daniel Baird
8. Tayne Randal
9. Brendan Leonard
10. Stephen Donald
11. Craig Green
12. Bill Osbourne
13. Steve Pokere (there you go, Hurricane!)
14. Terry Green
15. Robbie Deans
 

Zinzan

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Looks like an utterly random sample of some of the more average past ABs to me. Might be a handy 23rd all-time AB XV.

It's Taine Randell and I assume you meant Terry Wright on the right wing.

Of those players, Drake, Ashworth, Osbourne, Deans, Green, Brewer, Pokere &Tandell were somewhat 'decent' All Blacks. I would include Oliver if he could throw a ball.
 

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