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Official Rugby Thread
- Thread starter KennyD
- Start date
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
Oddly, I only had one drink - and that was a whisky after the final whistle. Have to work today, so I am sensible in my old age.
Hurricanes the only ones without a title now...
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Went to the game.
Obviously gutted about the result, but the better team won. I think the difference was in the halfbacks. Aaron Smith ran that game absolutely superbly. Always knew exactly what he was doing, lighting quick and decisive.
Perenara looked poor in comparison. Seemed unsure which way to pass the ball and diddled around too much.
Elliot Dixon's try was outstanding.
Obviously gutted about the result, but the better team won. I think the difference was in the halfbacks. Aaron Smith ran that game absolutely superbly. Always knew exactly what he was doing, lighting quick and decisive.
Perenara looked poor in comparison. Seemed unsure which way to pass the ball and diddled around too much.
Elliot Dixon's try was outstanding.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I think it will be remembered for a long time.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
what happened to Pocock?
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Did Pocock even play in the semi final against Wellington? Blink and you will miss him. I used to rate him highly but now concur with Hendrix. His work in the tight and specifically at creating turnovers has not been at its legendary best this year. There have been some games where we have seen it but it hasn't been a consistent display by him.
And definitely nothing compared to the form he was in when he SINGLE HANDEDLY beat South Africa in the quarterfinal. I have never seen a performance like that before or since. Some people complained that the ref let him do it, well so what - Ritchie reads the referee as well in the first 10 minutes of the game and will go as far as he can and then some. So why tarnish Pococks legacy from that game.
Maybe Australia need to invest in him and hope that he can recapture his best by playing some international rugby but I would take Hooper to start now.
A pity Jordie Read is not a New Zealander by the way. We could use him in our greater training squad. There is something about the position of number 7 that attracts Australia's finest athletes.
ripper868
International Coach
I think you may want to have a read of this article regarding Pocock's ineffectiveness at the turning the pill over this season, especially when compared to Hooper:
Wallabies by the numbers: Openside flanker
EDIT: The key stat for me is the turnovers/penalties forced. Per 15 games, Hooper gets 1 turnover and forces 2 pens, Pocock gets 8 Turnovers and forces 18 pens. A final score of 3-26. Pocock also concedes half as many penalties as Hooper.
Granted Hooper has some pluses that Pocock doesn't, his speed, tackle breaking ability and haircut are all top quality for a #12. Not saying he isn't good, he is, I just think Pocock is a better 7. He concedes less penalties, wins more turnover ball (which the wallabies will need as our set piece is gash) and communicates with referees better (even when not captain)
Pocock did what he could in the Semi v the Canes, I recall him winning at least 2 penalties that eve. The Brumbies certainly put in a better showing than the Wartahs, who stayed home and had a week off vs the Brumbies prep of winning in South Africa and then coming all the way back across to NZ.
Wallabies by the numbers: Openside flanker
EDIT: The key stat for me is the turnovers/penalties forced. Per 15 games, Hooper gets 1 turnover and forces 2 pens, Pocock gets 8 Turnovers and forces 18 pens. A final score of 3-26. Pocock also concedes half as many penalties as Hooper.
Granted Hooper has some pluses that Pocock doesn't, his speed, tackle breaking ability and haircut are all top quality for a #12. Not saying he isn't good, he is, I just think Pocock is a better 7. He concedes less penalties, wins more turnover ball (which the wallabies will need as our set piece is gash) and communicates with referees better (even when not captain)
Pocock did what he could in the Semi v the Canes, I recall him winning at least 2 penalties that eve. The Brumbies certainly put in a better showing than the Wartahs, who stayed home and had a week off vs the Brumbies prep of winning in South Africa and then coming all the way back across to NZ.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah even though I'm more a fan of Hooper's than Pocock, I completely disagree with Hurricane's style of writing off a player when they don't "show" up in a match in which their team was totally smoked. Sure it's nice to have a big performance even when you're getting killed, but there was little Pocock could have done, apart from hanging back and ONLY going for the turnovers, which would have been suicide when the Canes forwards were having such a huge running game.
Pocock is undeniably a great pilferer of the ball and is much better than Hooper and frankly any openside in the world at this.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Tell that to Ron Hextall who won the Conn Smythe trophy when his team lost the Stanley cup.
Just because you lose doesn't mean you personally can't shine. Lots of Australian 7s in the past have looked a million dollars vs us in losing causes.
The fact that we mention those 7s in the same breath as McCaw speaks volumes despite the fact they regularly lose.
I didn't understand your point about there being little he could have done apart from hanging back. But we probably have to talk live for you to get this point across to me as the written form of communication is very limiting.
In short in big games your stars need to shine. I saw Stephen Moore making an impact, I saw a decent break and some good tackling by Toomua, Pocock took the night off.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
8 turn overs in 15 games in not enough even if Hooper had zero. I notice the other candidates had 10 and 14 respectively. The 14 impresses me. The ten and 8 are average. These stats support my view he has not regained his form when he used to wear the gold jumper. Yes he forced a lot of penalties I will give him that, but I stand by my points.
Great article though.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Sometimes a 7 will hang back against a team like the Hurricanes, knowing that as soon as the ball goes lateral or slightly away from the forward pack he can isolate and pilfer. This is usually a valid move against teams like the Hurricanes who spread at every opportunity. Let's call this "playing loose", broadly speaking.
However, if you do this when the opposition are pick-and-going successfully and making ground "up the guts", so to speak, you're letting your team down because you're not a defensive presence which is where they need you. They need you to harden the **** up and make some tackles because even if the opposition does eventually spread it wide, by that stage they have enough go-forward that they'll be unstoppable (especially a team like the Canes).
In the semi, the Canes were getting huge pick and goes from Ardie Savea in particular, but also Broadhurst (what a season from him, immense), Coles, Vito etc etc. Pocock needed to make his freaking tackles. They were also getting smashed in the actual physical contest of the rucks - not the situation when you have a chance to grab it, but the situation where you try and drive over the top of the rucks to contest the ball without your hands (where guys like Jerome Kaino, Brodie Retallick, Nasi Manu, Liam Coltman, Keven Mealamu and Patrick Tuipulotu shine).
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Didn't see the game or anything, only post-match articles, but does anyone else think that the reaction to the Samoa game from New Zealand is incredibly patronising?
ripper868
International Coach
Haven't had a chance to scratch myself of late, let alone watch any replays from the TRC matches over the weekend.
from what I've seen breifly in highlights is that the "Pooper" combination will be tested more extensively, pending Poock recovering from a slight ankle niggle. Wallabies didn't really answer any selection questions, though Genia probably played himself out of a starting position (regardless of his injury). I still believe Genia is our best and most threatening 9, Phipps has a rocket pass but often that rocket misfires. Quade played below standard but may deserve another crack. Giteau was excellent from all reports, but Toomua was the man to straighten the attack and brought more shape when he cam on.
Bottom line, it doesn't matter what we change in the backs if the forwards don't show up.
from what I've seen breifly in highlights is that the "Pooper" combination will be tested more extensively, pending Poock recovering from a slight ankle niggle. Wallabies didn't really answer any selection questions, though Genia probably played himself out of a starting position (regardless of his injury). I still believe Genia is our best and most threatening 9, Phipps has a rocket pass but often that rocket misfires. Quade played below standard but may deserve another crack. Giteau was excellent from all reports, but Toomua was the man to straighten the attack and brought more shape when he cam on.
Bottom line, it doesn't matter what we change in the backs if the forwards don't show up.