*Official* Pakistan vs Australia in the UAE 2018

[Borges]

With Mohammad Abbas bowling like he has been doing in this game, Pakistan would probably have done quite well in a day-night game.

 

[social]

There’s just serious issues with our pathways and systems. The talent is there. We’re producing the bowlers. But no batsmen

Friend of mine is a former state player and now a highly regarded coach

He claims that 2 of the best 6 batsmen in Queensland are a couple of guys in late 20s/early 30s but have never been given a chance as weren’t identified at young age

 

[TheJediBrah]

Blaming pathways and systems is a pretty easy target but realistically what do you expect to happen when you ban the 2 players who are your best batsmen by far, half your bowlers are "injured" and you then don't even select anything close to the best team available. And you're playing Pakistan in the UAE.

If this happened against Pakistan in Brisbane, with a full-strength side, then I'd start really worrying about pathways and systems.

Having said all that I do actually think there are issues with the pathways, I just don't think it's a major contributor to Aus sucking.

 

[Midwinter]

Blaming pathways and systems is a pretty easy target but realistically what do you expect to happen when you ban the 2 players who are your best batsmen by far, half your bowlers are "injured" and you then don't even select anything close to the best team available. And you're playing Pakistan in the UAE.

If this happened against Pakistan in Brisbane, with a full-strength side, then I'd start really worrying about pathways and systems.

Having said all that I do actually think there are issues with the pathways, I just don't think it's a major contributor to Aus sucking.

I think what you are saying is that despite the pathways an systems there is no depth in the team.

Other than the top 6 players, the rest of the players are just good ordinary cricketers

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think what you are saying is that despite the pathways an systems there is no depth in the team.

Other than the top 6 players, the rest of the players are just good ordinary cricketers

I think there's also definitely an issue with selection. Favouritism is rampant and while selecting youth ahead of 30+ year olds has its merits you can't be ignoring Callum Fergusons and selecting Maddinson, Heads and Labuschagnes.

 

[Prince EWS]

Blaming pathways and systems is a pretty easy target but realistically what do you expect to happen when you ban the 2 players who are your best batsmen by far, half your bowlers are "injured" and you then don't even select anything close to the best team available. And you're playing Pakistan in the UAE.

Yeah I think there's slightly something to what GS said, but actually no moreso than any other country at the moment. Not producing Test batsmen who can adapt to alien conditions at all is very much a global trend. It's been exasperated here because of the own-goals from the senior management that were the suspensions of their best two batsmen (and another decent one), the appointment of a horrible coach and the subsequently awful batting selections that followed from that.

Imagine thinking there was enough depth in Australian batting to play in arguably the most alien conditions in a Test series against a good attack while suspending your best two batsmen and still being able to use luxury selection criteria like "hasn't had enough time in the middle in the last couple of weeks" or "hasn't converted enough starts in limited overs cricket" or "is working through some kinks in technique". Those are the sort of tiebreakers you can use when you're playing at home and batsmen are bashing the door down, but not now. If you do it now you just get bad teams and collapses.

 

[GotSpin]

Blaming pathways and systems is a pretty easy target but realistically what do you expect to happen when you ban the 2 players who are your best batsmen by far, half your bowlers are "injured" and you then don't even select anything close to the best team available. And you're playing Pakistan in the UAE.

If this happened against Pakistan in Brisbane, with a full-strength side, then I'd start really worrying about pathways and systems.

Having said all that I do actually think there are issues with the pathways, I just don't think it's a major contributor to Aus sucking.

I consider the blaming of systems and pathways as a part of the dysfunctional selection process as well, coaching etc etc

 

[Prince EWS]

I think what you are saying is that despite the pathways an systems there is no depth in the team.

Other than the top 6 players, the rest of the players are just good ordinary cricketers

Right but this is perfectly normal. Teams can't just banish their best five or so batsmen and expect the next lot to be better than "good, ordinary cricketers". Whenever this has even possibly been true in Test history it's been a complete aberration - a glitch, a lucky fluke - rather than something you should realistically expect from your pathways program all the time.

 

[Starfighter]

Right but this is perfectly normal. Teams can't just banish their best five or so batsmen and expect the next lot to be better than "good, ordinary cricketers". Whenever this has even possibly been true in Test history it's been a complete aberration - a glitch, a lucky fluke - rather than something you should realistically expect from your pathways program all the time.

Has it ever been true? I'm trying to think of a time where teams have missed five or six of their best players​ and not been poor.

 

[Prince EWS]

Has it ever been true? I'm trying to think of a time where teams have missed five or six of their best players​ and not been poor.

I can't think of any instances where it has proven to be true, but teams don't lose their best five or six of their best batsmen (or players) very often for us to see either. There have been times where it's theoretically been true -- players absolutely bashing the door down and not getting extended runs -- and even though I'm actually sceptical of even these times, you could make a case for them. Even if you steel-man the argument and grant that it would have been true at these times (and again, I'm sceptical), it's certainly been exceedingly rare, and probably not something administrators can actively create without a lot of luck.

 

[the big bambino]

Smith, Warner, Starc, Haze, Cummins, Pattinson and Lyon are our only test class cricketers. Atm two are banned and three injured. Even that group is too skint of batting. Outside that lot I’d rate Khawaja and for the future Stanlake and maybe Jhye Richardson. We need all those players available and the remaining positions filled out from whomever of Maxwell, Bancroft, Renshaw, Finch and the Marshes have managed to fluke themselves into some form.

 

[ajdude]

reckon holland's neck's gonna be pretty sore by the end of the day

 

[Burgey]

Renshaw is a test class player. You could tell from watching him play for half an hour. As Cribb said, if he’s fit there’s no way he should be left out.

 

[stephen]

Burns, Maxwell, Hughes, Patterson all have better first class records than Labaschagne. Why did none of them get picked? Why was Renshaw left out?

We're not missing our two best batsmen, we're missing possibly 4 or 5 of our best batsmen.

 

[harsh.ag]

Apply for the Oz coach job, PEWS.

 

[Starfighter]

Burns, Maxwell, Hughes, Patterson all have better first class records than Labaschagne. Why did none of them get picked? Why was Renshaw left out?

We're not missing our two best batsmen, we're missing possibly 4 or 5 of our best batsmen.

Ferguson as well.

 

[stephen]

I can't think of any instances where it has proven to be true, but teams don't lose their best five or six of their best batsmen (or players) very often for us to see either. There have been times where it's theoretically been true -- players absolutely bashing the door down and not getting extended runs -- and even though I'm actually sceptical of even these times, you could make a case for them. Even if you steel-man the argument and grant that it would have been true at these times (and again, I'm sceptical), it's certainly been exceedingly rare, and probably not something administrators can actively create without a lot of luck.

The last time this happened to Australia was world series cricket. We got thumped after all of the player bans.

 

[Burgey]

Nah mid-80s rebel tours.

Jeez doesn’t Australia miss Phil Hughes?

 

[ajdude]

**** there’s a lot to work with with marnus’ bowling. impresses me way more than swepson

 

[vcs]

Excellent match from Sohail. He looks like a good Test cricketer. Pakistan are pretty much home and dry here.