**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

[Blocky]

I don't disagree that Sodhi bowls a lot of pies, but the second paragraph is wrong. Craig went to pieces when the Windies attacked him in the second test. If Lyon and O'Keefe couldn't control the run rate Craig has zero chance. These guys play finger spinners in their sleep.

Smith is one example, the SA legspinner is another.

Utter bollocks.. I guess we forget that a certain Graeme Swann has 35 wickets at 17 against Pakistan. Herath has 88 at 28 against them.. meanwhile any leg spinner not named Warne or Kumble has struggled just as much against Pakistan as the finger spinners do.

The reality is that the bowlers who do well against Pakistan are those who can tie down the batsman and force mistakes. Lyon hasn't been bowling well (for the entire year) and also went in with the typical "Well I'll bowl to take wickets" mindset that he's been advised to bowl with, rather than "Wickets will come when I keep them under pressure"

Sodhi and Craig might well end up needing 60 runs per wicket - the difference is Craig won't be releasing pressure every over he bowls with a four ball and won't be going at 4s an over to do it.

 

[hendrix]

I don't know why you think Craig will be able to tie down an end. His MO is patently to toss it up and give it a rip. He's not Vettori.

Herath is the best spinner in the world and also a left armer.

We don't have a spinner to tie down qn end so we may as well pick a leggie.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I don't know why you think Craig will be able to tie down an end. His MO is patently to toss it up and give it a rip. He's not Vettori.

Herath is the best spinner in the world and also a left armer.

We don't have a spinner to tie down qn end so we may as well pick a leggie.

He's more likely to tie up an end than Sodhi, and no less likely to take wickets.

 

[Blocky]

He's more likely to tie up an end than Sodhi, and no less likely to take wickets.

This.

I can't be bothered explaining why Sodhi at this stage must be giving the best reach around combination possible to keep his place in the squad. The guy gets out bowled almost every single match by other domestic spinners, let alone international ones.

 

[Blocky]

In NZ, where we can't play spinners at all, and we get bowled out to some of the worst spinners around (i.e Narine in tests)....

Sodhi averages 50 and goes at 4 an over..

Yet we're supposed to believe the guy is a good bowler and will develop?

 

[hendrix]

It's not that I rate Sodhi. I just don't rate Craig when there's no bounce and there's 11 right handers who have all been murdering off spinners since birth.

It's not like the Caribbean where there was quick turn and some bounce for him. The West Indies batsmen are also just as poor as NZ against spin.

Realistically I don't expect either Sodhi or Craig to do well but I think Sodhi has more of a chance as a leggie, even if he's a crap one.

If he can average 40 at 4rpo this series ill consider it a success.

 

[hendrix]

If he can do half as well as Imran Tahir did we'll be laughing.

 

[Blocky]

Imran Tahir is about 200% as skillful as Sodhi... and I don't rate Tahir as a pimple on Warne's ass, pre Hurley days.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

It's not that I rate Sodhi. I just don't rate Craig when there's no bounce and there's 11 right handers who have all been murdering off spinners since birth.

It's not like the Caribbean where there was quick turn and some bounce for him. The West Indies batsmen are also just as poor as NZ against spin.

Realistically I don't expect either Sodhi or Craig to do well but I think Sodhi has more of a chance as a leggie, even if he's a crap one.

If he can average 40 at 4rpo this series ill consider it a success.

The pakistanis murder off spinners, but sodhi gets murdered by ****ing NZ domestic batsmen.

 

[Athlai]

Jeets is the only spinner have that would average 40 against Pakistan, and that would be in favourable conditions. If Sodhi averages under 50 I'd say 75% of his wickets will be tailenders.

 

[Blocky]

According to Sodhi apologists, he's very talented and if he can go from landing 2 balls in the right spot an over to 3 balls, he'll be NZ's best ever spin bowler.

According to realists, Sodhi will end up being another Brooke Walker/Tarun Nethula/Greg Loveridge/Any other wrist spinners we've tried and had complete failure with.

 

[Dan]

Tastle IMO. But that won't happen.

 

[Bahnz]

The pakistanis murder off spinners, but sodhi gets murdered by ****ing NZ domestic batsmen.

Jeets gets murdered by ****ing NZ domestic batsmen though. Hell, I'd say that Zulfiqar and Yasir would probably usually get murdered by ****ing NZ domestic batsmen on the majority of pitches served up in the Plunket Shield.

 

[hendrix]

According to Sodhi apologists, he's very talented and if he can go from landing 2 balls in the right spot an over to 3 balls, he'll be NZ's best ever spin bowler.

According to realists, Sodhi will end up being another Brooke Walker/Tarun Nethula/Greg Loveridge/Any other wrist spinners we've tried and had complete failure with.

This is moronic. You don't have to think he'll be NZ's best ever spin bowler to think he has a better chance than Mark Craig. This is not a binary scale.

Tastle IMO. But that won't happen.

I'd prefer Tastle too.

 

[Howsie]

At least with Craig you've got a guy who will be able to keep the batsman quiet and is also more threatening when the players attack him, versus Sodhi who loses his line and length the moment someone starts to use their feet.

Huh, based on what? Craig went at over 4 runs an over in the Caribbean, and as soon as he was attacked went to pieces. I have no idea what you're basing that theory on. Even at the first class level his RPO is at 3.5.

 

[Bahnz]

I'd prefer Tastle too.

Yeah I think Sodhi and Craig are a pretty miserable second best compared to Tastle and Jeets.

 

[Blocky]

This is moronic. You don't have to think he'll be NZ's best ever spin bowler to think he has a better chance than Mark Craig. This is not a binary scale.

I'd prefer Tastle too.

Except Mark Craig has had more success in both the NZ and Test competitions than Sodhi has had...

Huh, based on what? Craig went at over 4 runs an over in the Caribbean, and as soon as he was attacked went to pieces. I have no idea what you're basing that theory on. Even at the first class level his RPO is at 3.5.

Versus Sodhi being at 4, in arguably better conditions for bowlers.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

this debate is what makes me think it's better just to not play a spinner. Like holy **** they all suck.

 

[hendrix]

Except Mark Craig has had more success in both the NZ and Test competitions than Sodhi has had...



Versus Sodhi being at 4, in arguably better conditions for bowlers.

These are my thoughts:

If we simply pick our best bowlers, neither Sodhi nor Craig are anywhere near that list, nor is any NZ spinner.

However, if we go with horses-for-courses (as we did in the Windies and it actually worked out reasonably well for us with both Sodhi and Craig doing a good job); we need to pick either a very tight spinner (Jeets or Vettori, neither of whom are available) or someone who will get turn and bounce out of slow conditions. I would prefer Todd Astle over Sodhi in this regard. I just think a big part of Craig's success in the Windies was down to the quick turn and bounce that was on offer. This is quite different from what we've seen in the UAE. There won't be bounce available nor sharp turn, so the tall finger spinners are highly unlikely to succeed. Short, extremely skilled finger spinners like Herath or Babar have had success but they are very different to Craig.

 

[Dan]

Versus Sodhi being at 4, in arguably better conditions for bowlers.

It doesn't matter whether Craig is leaking 3.5 an over or Sodhi is leaking 4 per over; neither's building any pressure whatsoever at that point.