***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2017/18

[oblongballs]

Yes, NZ are low on spin output.

In terms of Astle, he is not bad but he isn't exactly international quality either.

 

[Immenso]

Very comfortable with NZ's white-ball spinning options. Best depth ever, albeit without a Vettori.

 

[NZTailender]

Very comfortable with NZ's white-ball spinning options. Best depth ever, albeit without a Vettori.

Yeah it used to be basically Vettori and Jeets, and later NcCullum (who was a legit good T20 bowler but imo was wasted space in the ODI side). I think Santner, Astle and Sodhi is pretty good. Remember how they tried to make Nethula a thing?

 

[Immenso]

Yeah it used to be basically Vettori and Jeets, and later NcCullum (who was a legit good T20 bowler but imo was wasted space in the ODI side). I think Santner, Astle and Sodhi is pretty good. Remember how they tried to make Nethula a thing?

No problem with Nethula on my part. Was never 'a thing'. He legitimately deserved a shot. I would class NMac the ODI bowler as selectors trying to make 'a thing' out of something that wasn't there (his fielding and late order hitting & economy rate making up for his toothlessness).

Based on his results, he got a raw deal, imo. I know there's the 'attitude thing' reported by Doull.

Would have preferred him to NMac spending that 2 or 3 years innocuously delivering 2 set batsmen to the batting power play almost every time.

 

[Athlai]

Nathan McCullum was genuinely not terrible. Getting hard done by in this thread. Not as economical as Santner or Vettori but both Sodhi and Astle who are being rated here have been significantly less economical.

Also reckon people are overrating Tastle. He’s not bad cover but the bloke wouldn’t get a game for almost every other nation.

 

[NZTailender]

Nathan McCullum was genuinely not terrible. Getting hard done by in this thread. Not as economical as Santner or Vettori but both Sodhi and Astle who are being rated here have been significantly less economical.

Yeah a whole .30 more than McCullum. You get a whopping 3 runs less with Nmac with the added benefit of less wicket taking ability!

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, in ODI's NcCullum was rubbish. He just had no ability to contain and string together dots, and leaked singles like a sieve. An average of 1/50 off 10 is just not good enough given he got to bowl in the quiet overs. Pretty decent T20 cricketer though.

 

[thierry henry]

I'm all for the significance of E/R in LO cricket but you can't just ignore average and NcCullum's complete inability to take wickets was simply not up to scratch.

 

[Immenso]

Yeah, in ODI's NcCullum was rubbish. He just had no ability to contain and string together dots, and leaked singles like a sieve. An average of 1/50 off 10 is just not good enough given he got to bowl in the quiet overs. Pretty decent T20 cricketer though.

1/50 is generous.
Often 0/something. On average a wicket every 1.5 games.

Edit. Actually, strike rate of wicket every 56 balls. So I accept 1/50 of he bowls his full 10.

 

[Immenso]

I'm all for the significance of E/R in LO cricket but you can't just ignore average and NcCullum's complete inability to take wickets was simply not up to scratch.

ERs are indeed significant.

The ERs of our bowlers who bowled the last 15 overs, after NMac got a tidy 0/48, suffered.

I'd accept an extra 1 run per over during our spinner's spell to reduced the damage in the last 15 by 1 or 2 rpo.

My theory, anyway.

 

[Prince EWS]

I remember writing up a post on here about NcCullum was "a hack, but in a good way", and I think that still stands. He was clearly not good enough at anything to be an international cricketer in any form other than T20, but managed to mitigate the damage of his lack of skill to a pretty impressive degree. He was a classic anti-cricket player, but anti-cricket in a weak spot is generally a better idea than having someone attempt proper cricket as do so really poorly. NcCullum seemed like a waste of a spot at times but he never really seemed like a liability per se.

 

[Immenso]

I remember writing up a post on here about NcCullum was "a hack, but in a good way", and I think that still stands. He was clearly not good enough at anything to be an international cricketer in any form other than T20, but managed to mitigate the damage of his lack of skill to a pretty impressive degree. He was a classic anti-cricket player, but anti-cricket in a weak spot is generally a better idea than having someone attempt proper cricket as do so really poorly. NcCullum seemed like a waste of a spot at times but he never really seemed like a liability per se.

It was never particularly controversial, as there was no other option than Nethula. I don't think many NZ fans were ready for an NZ wrist spin bowler in ODIs then, plus he then got apparently ruled out on attitude.

But he got a bit of a free ride in some of the less thinking media and forums.

From memory, his record at home was particularly appalling. His career record reduced to just bad by being ok in Asia. But, considering he was the encumbent leading up to a home CWC meant his role deserved a lot more critical focus at the time, IMO

 

[Immenso]

NMac home record.

29 matches, 12 wickets, ave 76.66, SR 98 balls, ER 4.69.

That's what I'm getting at. At home a wicket every 16 overs

He was a bad option circa 2015 CWC at home, IMO, in the age of the batting power play at over 36. Too often 2 set batsmen tonking around Corey and McClenaghan etc in the last 15 in that era.

 

[Immenso]

The table that shows why I hold N McCullum the ODI bowler in such low regard:

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Balanced by the table that shows my assessment of his value is maybe a bit unfair, as the majority of his career was not played in NZ, so he definitely served us OK in conditions where he played 70% of his career:
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

 

[Flem274*]

remember when aussie (the poster) wanted him to play tests

 

[NZTailender]

remember when aussie (the poster) wanted him to play tests

IIRC he was't the only one. Or at least a few seemed sympathetic to the idea.

 

[vandem]

IIRC he was't the only one. Or at least a few seemed sympathetic to the idea.

Yup. No reason he couldn't have done the Santner role for a season or two around 2012-3, batting #7 (Watling at #6), bowling some tight first innings overs to give the seamers a break. Meant we could have played 4 seamers. Would probably have had just as many match-winning 3rd / 4th innings bowling performances as Santner. :-)

IIRC were not many spin options after Vettori succumbed to late career injuries. Nethula had an unsuccessful tour to WI. Jeets unavailable. Astle taking domestic wickets but discarded after one test tour. Bruce Martin tidy but would he have taken more wickets than NMac? A young Sodhi lacking control.

 

[Athlai]

NMac isn't terrible but he also isn't actually a bowler that builds pressure like Santner. Never deserved to be near the test team

 

[oblongballs]

It is sad to see someone like Nathan Mac being bigged up, just goes to show the lack of resources NZ have had in the spin department. The current Astle isn't that impressive either but he has done ok in this series. Santner is useful, but the team really needs a ripper.

 

[Moss]

Probably the best thing I can say about NMac is he seemed to relish tight situations - can recall him hitting a matchwinning six of Malinga in a World T20 game in 2010, and taking Herath for 26 in a final over to win an ODI once. Plus there was his performance in the 2011 quarterfinal which had South Africa in a chokehold which we should all be grateful for; but yeah that was as good as his ODI bowling got, and Santner is comofrtably an upgrade.

Very good T20 player nevertheless and unlucky not to be making more money in the T20 league boom.

Oddly enough, there was this NZA tour of India in 2008 where he took a six wicket haul in the first innings of very first game (I think), and I recall wondering if he could be a test prospect. That is, till I finally got to watch him.