***Official*** Pakistan in England

[Neil Pickup]

No one counts Murali as a finger-spinner - it makes debating pointless!

Out of interest - compare Harbhajan and Monty's records against Pakistan...

 

[marc71178]

That however IS hyperbowl, last time I checked Marali was an off-spinner (all be it a wristy one). Also he has a way to go before you could fairly rank him higher than Harbhajan Singh.

So what if Murali is an offie?

For one thing, doesn't Monty turn it the other way to an offie.

Secondly, is Murali a finger spinner?

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Vettori is still a better finger spinner than Panesar in my opinion, so is Harbhajan.

 

[steds]

Panesar is still relatively unproven, so I'm fence sitting.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Vettori is the best fingerspinner in the world for mine, followed by Harbhajan. Panesar is unproven, but may well prove to be in the same class as the first two.

 

[Gloucefan]

So what if Murali is an offie?

For one thing, doesn't Monty turn it the other way to an offie.

Secondly, is Murali a finger spinner?

So what if he turns it the other way. Fletch said he is the best 'finger spinner' in the world not the SLA.

Yes Murali is a finger spinner he has a wristy action but is still essentially a finger spinner.

Monty is quality and has potential to be world class. It's still way to early to say what Fletcher said.

I would still rate Hrabhajan Singh higher. Lets not forget the demise of Saqlain Mushtaq either, this could still go very wrong for Monty.

 

[greg]

So what if he turns it the other way. Fletch said he is the best 'finger spinner' in the world not the SLA.

Yes Murali is a finger spinner he has a wristy action but is still essentially a finger spinner.

Monty is quality and has potential to be world class. It's still way to early to say what Fletcher said.

I would still rate Hrabhajan Singh higher. Lets not forget the demise of Saqlain Mushtaq either, this could still go very wrong for Monty.

Obviously you can debate the merits of Harbhajan, but to complain about Fletcher on the grounds that Murali is a "finger spinner" is just silly. Fletcher obviously isn't including Murali so that is the basis upon which his claim is made. Whether someone is or isn't "the best" doesn't really matter anyway - all that matters is whether they are any good.

I think the real motive behind Fletcher's remarks are to unambiguously state that Monty will be England's no1. spinner ahead of Giles in the Ashes, whilst trying not to hurt Giles feelings or discourage him from continuing his recovery.

 

[lionheart]

So what if he turns it the other way. Fletch said he is the best 'finger spinner' in the world not the SLA.

This may be a stupid question but as I’m ignorant to hip internet acronyms; what is SLA?

 

[honestbharani]

slow left arm.

 

[Gloucefan]

Obviously you can debate the merits of Harbhajan, but to complain about Fletcher on the grounds that Murali is a "finger spinner" is just silly...

Why? Murali IS a finger spinner...

Fletcher obviously isn't including Murali so that is the basis upon which his claim is made.

So what's the point in making that particular claim? He didn't need to say that in order to let Giles down, I think he would just tell him if that was the case, anyway I doubt that was his motive. I could make the claim that Collingwood is the best all rounder int he world on the basis I'm not including anyone better than him. That would be 'silly'.

As for Harbhajan he has still taken 238 test wickets 203 not against Bangladesh or Zimbabwe and is only 26. Granted poor away from home but this is still a great achievement and for me at the moment put him higher than Panesar.

 

[honestbharani]

no he isn't. He depends on his wrists for imparting the spin. His wrist is what gives the spin in case of his off breaks and it does 75% of the work when he bowls the doosra. He really isn't a finger spinner. It was one of the first things that was mentioned when he was first called for chucking by Darrell Hair way back when.

 

[Gloucefan]

no he isn't. He depends on his wrists for imparting the spin. His wrist is what gives the spin in case of his off breaks and it does 75% of the work when he bowls the doosra. He really isn't a finger spinner. It was one of the first things that was mentioned when he was first called for chucking by Darrell Hair way back when.

75% of the work where did you get that info?

He does use his wrist but its still effectively a finger spinners action all be it not an orthodox one.

 

[stumpski]

slow left arm.

A hip internet acronym, that appears in my 1972 copy of Playfair.

 

[stumpski]

And no, that was not a cross between Playboy and Mayfair.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't like to second guess anyone, least of all as shrewd an operator as Big Dunc, but I imagine his statement was at least partly inspired by some of the grumblings in the press about his slightly curmudgeonly comments after the second test. He effectively said, "Let's see how he does when conditions aren't in his favour, then" &, TBF to Monty, Headingley is an absolute spinners' graveyard.

Here's a lovely stat (to which I'm indebted to The Guardian's Mike Selvey), since 1996 English spinners' wickets taken at Headingley: 2 (1 for Giles in 2002 & 1 for Atherton (!!) in 1996). Monty's 6 looks suddenly a pretty decent effort I reckon.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

no he isn't. He depends on his wrists for imparting the spin. His wrist is what gives the spin in case of his off breaks and it does 75% of the work when he bowls the doosra. He really isn't a finger spinner. It was one of the first things that was mentioned when he was first called for chucking by Darrell Hair way back when.

Every spin bowler relies on their wrists in imparting the spin, just like every wrist spinner relies somewhat on their fingers. It's a distinction based around the two overarching schools of spin bowling, not about whether or not someone "uses their wrists". Murali is a very unorthodox fingerspinner, but he still is a fingerspinner.

Anyway, I don't think it really has much relevance to Fletcher's comments, as clearly he was talking about orthodox spinners and thus discounting Murali.

 

[marc71178]

So what if he turns it the other way.

I dunno, you were the one who brought of spin into it, but you brought it in with someone who isn't a finger spinner.

 

[Gloucefan]

I dunno, you were the one who brought of spin into it, but you brought it in with someone who isn't a finger spinner.

No Duncan Fletcher said 'finger spinner' which I'm pretty sure includes off spin or SLA. I pointed out that there are two off-spinners who are finger spinners better than Monty. My point was so what if they turn it the other way to Monty I'm just saying there are to finger spinners better than him.

Murali has an unorthodox finger spinners action but is a finger spinner. Wrist spinners use there pinky but doesn't mean they aren't wrist spinners.

 

[Neil Pickup]

This reminds me of the Lebanon thread, where we had page after page of 99% of people using one definition and one person making an argument out of a different definition. No one is or has ever tried to put Monty and Murali on the same plane, so stop trying to manufacture discord from nothing. The debate here is Monty v Harbhajan v Vettori.

 

[PY]

This reminds me of the Lebanon thread, where we had page after page of 99% of people using one definition and one person making an argument out of a different definition. No one is or has ever tried to put Monty and Murali on the same plane, so stop trying to manufacture discord from nothing. The debate here is Monty v Harbhajan v Vettori.

Booo hisss, get off the stage.