***Official*** Pakistan in England

[SJS]

Thing is though, what possible additional evidence could the umpires have? If either had seen something surely they would have come out with it before now instead of taking all of this stick? Sky have assured us that they haven't picked up anything.

I agree. If there was something it would have come out by now.

 

[R_D]

I agree. If there was something it would have come out by now.

well you would think so but the twisted entity that is ICC might not think that way.
Maybe the word of their umpires is good enough for ICC, i certainly hope they have more proof than just the words of the umpire.
Still no pictures of the ball that was tempered with ?

Maybe they are just adding final touches to it before the hearing ( just kidding )
People need to lighten up a bit we are all getting bit grim.

 

[SJS]

well you would think so but the twisted entity that is ICC might not think that way.
Maybe the word of their umpires is good enough for ICC, i certainly hope they have more proof than just the words of the umpire.
Still no pictures of the ball that was tempered with ?

Maybe they are just adding final touches to it before the hearing ( just kidding )
People need to lighten up a bit we are all getting bit grim.

By the way, I did see Inzy taking the ball from Hair in his hands before it was replaced. Just to clarify for those who felt Inzy had a right to see the ball.

 

[SJS]

Bob Woolmer may have done Pakistan's cause a bit of dis-service by the timing of this

Excerpts :

- "I'd allow bowlers to use anything that naturally appears on the cricket field, They could rub the ball on the ground, pick the seam, scratch it with their nails - anything that allows the ball to move off the seam to make it less of a batsman's game."

- "Every single bowler I know from the time I played in 1968 to 1984 was guilty, at least under the current law, of some sort of ball-changing. If you haven't played the game, like a lot of the umpires haven't, they don't know these things. The more laws you make to try to stop it being done, the more the players go the other way. It's like prohibition: the more you ban alcohol, the more it goes underground"

 

[Gloucefan]

Hair warned the Pakistanis that if they didn't come out, they'd forfit the match. They still chose not to come out. They were fully aware they were forfitting the match. End of. So the argument that Pakistan still wanted to come out doesn't stand, because they chose not to come out when it mattered, fully aware of the consequences.

Exactly, they can't just refuse to come out, still not come out when told of the consequences and then suddenly walk on after 20-25 mins. The game doesn't run to Pakistans timetable. Then for Shaharyar Khan (was it him, can't remember was just listening) to come on afterwards and imply it's Hair's fault because Pakistan are now ready to play and he can't see the problem is just outrageous, the problem is they refused to come out and forfeited the match knowingly. Would the ICC even have allowed play to procede?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Thing is though, what possible additional evidence could the umpires have? If either had seen something surely they would have come out with it before now instead of taking all of this stick? Sky have assured us that they haven't picked up anything.

Either they saw someone tampering with the ball, or they're going by the rapid deteriation of the ball (although that is debatable evidence IMO).

 

[Tom Halsey]

I agree. If there was something it would have come out by now.

Not necessarily, if they've been told not to go public about their evidence yet (which if it exists, would be logical).

 

[SJS]

. Would the ICC even have allowed play to procede?

".... it is not the role of the ICC to overturn the decisions of on-field umpires, the people who are enshrined in the laws of cricket as the sole judges of fair and unfair play, the ultimate arbiters of the game."

This is what Malcolm Speed said yesterday and its difficult to see how ICC can say or do anything different from this for something that has aready happened. Any over ruling of the umpires by ICC would set a terrible precedent.

 

[SJS]

Not necessarily, if they've been told not to go public about their evidence yet (which if it exists, would be logical).

Not public but it would have come out when the parties concerned were closetted with the match refree etc that evening.

Hair would have been confromted by Inzy and he would have had to come with something. If he did, one would have seen a more muted reaction from Pakistani side after that or at least a different line than they are still persisting with "where's the proof"

 

[The Baconator]

The England squad has been announced for the one-dayers, and as far as I can remeber, Micheal Yardy, Rikki Clarke, and young Stuart Broad have all recieved a call up.

Yardy's not a bad pick I suppose, better than Loudon. Good to see Read back as well.

 

[PY]

Evening here actually. Sorry, I overreacted.
A day spent in front of the PC doing mind-numblingly boring Uni work can make one a little cranky, but I shouldn't take it out on fellow forummers.

No problem, I thought it was out of character as you're one of the most level-headed guys on here.

No need to tell me about uni work making one cranky...been there.

 

[chris.hinton]

rikki clarke is back at last a real talent

 

[TT Boy]

rikki clarke is back at last a real talent

 

[TT Boy]

Good to see Stuart Broad included though I thought a line had been drawn under Darren Gough who will doubtlessly bowl better with the new ball but his about as good as Kabir Ali with the older one. Michael Yardy also is a pretty ineffectual bowler, his a prime candidate for LBW and struggles against pace so **** knows why he is there, his neither one or the other. Also Ian Bell and Alastair Cook batting in the same one day side, first word which comes to mind is meh.

Though the good news is the weather is absolutely ***** at the moment and I doubt that some of the games will be played.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Hair would have been confromted by Inzy and he would have had to come with something. If he did, one would have seen a more muted reaction from Pakistani side after that or at least a different line than they are still persisting with "where's the proof"

Possibly, but if he's been told not to say anything, he might not even have told Inzy.

As I said, if at the hearing no evidence comes out (and no, the state of the ball does not count as evidence) then that's when I'll be certain there is no evidence.

 

[superkingdave]

Good to see Stuart Broad included though I thought a line had been drawn under Darren Gough who will doubtlessly bowl better with the new ball but his about as good as Kabir Ali with the older one. Michael Yardy also his a pretty ineffectual bowler, his also prime candidate for LBW and struggles against pace so **** knows why he is there, his neither one or the other. Also Ian Bell and Alastair Cook batting in the same one day side, first word which comes to mind is meh.

Though the good news is the weather is absolutely ***** at the moment and I doubt that some of the games will be played.

Completely agree with you about Gough, though most of the articles i've seen over the last few weeks have described Gough along the lines of 'still the best death bowler in the country, but doens't do enough with the new ball'

I actually think Cook will do okay in ODI's

 

[marc71178]

I honestly think Madugalle has been told by the powers that be at the ICC to come up with some ' Hog wash' to delay the damn thing , so that all the anger and emotions will die down and then ICC can decide in their own time or just leave it open for awhile, and allow the tour to go ahead or even terminate it for the moment

Which of course explains why he went home after the 3rd Test finished doesn't it...

 

[marc71178]

The England squad has been announced for the one-dayers, and as far as I can remeber, Micheal Yardy, Rikki Clarke, and young Stuart Broad have all recieved a call up.

Still no place for Tremlett which seems bizarre, especially when Gough is called up.

Here's hoping Gough plays and is battered out of sight, thus ending him.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yardy bowls pretty much like Jayasuriya - tbh I see him as a bowler in this England side; I don't know what that's more of an indictment of, but if he goes for less than six per over then it's better than Saj and Plunkers. I still maintain that bowlers are overrated.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Can you imagine how different the reactions would be from some people if it was a team such as England in Pakistan's position?

A shrug of the shoulders would be my guess. Maybe a bit of finger-pointing. I very much doubt we'd have failed to come out after tea & we certainly wouldn't have had the brass hide to blame our petulance on an insult to our national pride if we did.

Over here we know our sportsmen cheat; in the 1998 & 2002 World Cups Michael Owen got away with two absolutely outrageous dives against Argentina & the general consensus was "Good on yer, Mickey". Same with Si Jones & his Extra Strongs; if a bit of minty-fresh phlegm helped to down the crims last year all well & good.