*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016

[Niall]

The big problem Ireland and the other associates face is a talent drain to full nations.

I know I'm going to be hit with the 'but Morgan/Joyce/Rankin are products of the English system argument but it's true.

Yep spot on.


The other issue is Ireland is ultimately a small population of 4 million where cricket means sweet **** all. Soccer, rugby, GAA are the sports that dominate strongly, so while I think they won't ever turn into Kenya, they probably peaked a few years ago and its doubtful they will have such a strong side for a long time. I suppose they need to do what they did in the Jack Charlton era and basically try and find as many county players with little chance of playing for England and lure them to the green side while hoping they can develop a few players also to keep them ticking over.

 

[Furball]

Is that really the big problem? Losing 3 players not really good enough to play Test matches to a high level is the thing that has held Irish cricket back? Seriously disagree.

2 of them were deemed good enough to play Tests at some point and one of them captains England in the formats of the game Ireland play at. I don't think there's any dount Ireland would be a better side with Morgan.

It's the eligibility which is a farce. Morgan last played ODI cricket for Ireland in the qualifying tournament for the 2011 World Cup then played in the T20 World Cup for England about a month later. Joyce meanwhile, had to get special dispensation to play for Ireland in that World Cup because he'd played as recently as 2007 for England.

 

[91Jmay]

None of those things mean anywhere near as much to Irish cricket as a lack of proper funding. Not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah I guess it isn't but at the same time to secure more funding they've gotta have performances to back it up, which is made a lot harder after losing 3 of your best ever players.

 

[hendrix]

Is there a way their domestic game and/or friendly internationals could be better monetised?

I don't like to be that guy but the aim should be towards self-sufficiency - whether they get the funding or not.

Afghanistan now have the Afghanistan Premier League, for example. Not saying that's the best option for Ireland but hopefully they're looking at their options.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Funny that if you look at Ireland's top order batting they've actually got probably the most similar line-up to what they had ~5 years ago than any other international side

 

[Prince EWS]

Is there a way their domestic game and/or friendly internationals could be better monetised?

I don't like to be that guy but the aim should be towards self-sufficiency - whether they get the funding or not.

Afghanistan now have the Afghanistan Premier League, for example. Not saying that's the best option for Ireland but hopefully they're looking at their options.

They did manage to sell the broadcast rights to their ODIs against Sri Lanka and Pakistan this season, which was a big step forward for them. Ireland and Afghanistan have both bucked the trend of the other associates by actually making money outside of ICC handouts and world tournament shares, which is huge. I don't think they got a buyer for the games against Afghanistan which was unfortunate for both parties, but the fact that both teams can produce profitable home (or 'home' in the case of Afghanistan) cricket against full members now is huge.

I think their decline has been slightly over-blown at times too. I really feared for what would become of their bowling attack after Johnston retired but Rankin coming out of international retirement and the emergence of McCarthy and McBrine has really helped things. They got hammered the other day but that's going to happen on occasions when you're an associate regardless IMO. They were right in the game with 15 overs to go in their first ODI against Sri Lanka this season and they drew the series with Afghanistan to signal they weren't slipping down the associate ranks. They've dipped a little, but it's more akin to the sort of dip you see every side go through after some senior players go as opposed to the massive decline we've seen teams like Kenya suddenly go through.

Are they as good as Bangladesh? No, no they're not. In ODIs they're not even close at the moment. But the fact that they were even close at one point (I strongly believe they would've beaten them in a Test series at home at their peak) despite the massive gulf in funding and support and despite occasionally getting their players nabbed illustrated they were worthy of the sort of the funding Bangladesh get, IMO.

 

[Tec15]

Are they as good as Bangladesh? No, no they're not. In ODIs they're not even close at the moment. But the fact that they were even close at one point (I strongly believe they would've beaten them in a Test series at home at their peak) despite the massive gulf in funding and support and despite occasionally getting their players nabbed illustrated they were worthy of the sort of the funding Bangladesh get, IMO.

Lol "would've beaten them in a Test series at home at their peak" Sure, sure. When was their so-called peak anyway? Anyway my post was mainly about the usual suspects who want them to get funding *instead* of Bangladesh. The crowd who were all "Dump Bangladesh , fund Ireland because they're so much better". They were particularly loud after Ireland's win against the West Indies in the World Cup. Not surprising that they've chosen to be quiet after a royal rodgering at home against a very mediocre Pakistan side languishing in ninth place.

 

[Niall]

They did manage to sell the broadcast rights to their ODIs against Sri Lanka and Pakistan this season, which was a big step forward for them. Ireland and Afghanistan have both bucked the trend of the other associates by actually making money outside of ICC handouts and world tournament shares, which is huge. I don't think they got a buyer for the games against Afghanistan which was unfortunate for both parties, but the fact that both teams can produce profitable home (or 'home' in the case of Afghanistan) cricket against full members now is huge.

I think their decline has been slightly over-blown at times too. I really feared for what would become of their bowling attack after Johnston retired but Rankin coming out of international retirement and the emergence of McCarthy and McBrine has really helped things. They got hammered the other day but that's going to happen on occasions when you're an associate regardless IMO. They were right in the game with 15 overs to go in their first ODI against Sri Lanka this season and they drew the series with Afghanistan to signal they weren't slipping down the associate ranks. They've dipped a little, but it's more akin to the sort of dip you see every side go through after some senior players go as opposed to the massive decline we've seen teams like Kenya suddenly go through.

Are they as good as Bangladesh? No, no they're not. In ODIs they're not even close at the moment. But the fact that they were even close at one point (I strongly believe they would've beaten them in a Test series at home at their peak) despite the massive gulf in funding and support and despite occasionally getting their players nabbed illustrated they were worthy of the sort of the funding Bangladesh get, IMO.

Didn't Zimbabwe make good money out of their Pakistan tour? 50/50 split?

Obviously dangerous, but Ireland and Pakistan have good relations, could be worth thinking about.

An Irish IPL would be an idea, but would be tough to make serious money in, heck most Dublin soccer sides at times struggle to make money, unsure how the hell cricket would do that much better.

They have some okish young bowlers, but so many of their batsman have peaked and on a downward slope, could be a tough few years for them.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Didn't Zimbabwe make good money out of their Pakistan tour? 50/50 split?

Obviously dangerous, but Ireland and Pakistan have good relations, could be worth thinking about.

An Irish IPL would be an idea, but would be tough to make serious money in, heck most Dublin soccer sides at times struggle to make money, unsure how the hell cricket would do that much better.

They have some okish young bowlers, but so many of their batsman have peaked and on a downward slope, could be a tough few years for them.

I honestly think their best chance would be if the ECB goes for a big city franchise type league and then an Irish team joins that. But that's a lot of ifs and maybes.

I think given how poor travellers Bangladesh have been I do think even now Ireland could beat Bangladesh in Ireland. The Fizz would certainly make Bangladesh favourites though, but 2-4 years ago I'd have made Ireland favourite with all their players available.

 

[Prince EWS]

Didn't Zimbabwe make good money out of their Pakistan tour? 50/50 split?

For a number of reasons Zimbabwe tend to make a loss every time they play cricket unless it's a world tournament or against India, even despite sometimes getting good coin for the broadcast rights. That tour may have been an exception; I'm not exactly sure.

 

[Niall]

For a number of reasons Zimbabwe tend to make a loss every time they play cricket unless it's a world tournament or against India, even despite sometimes getting good coin for the broadcast rights. That tour may have been an exception; I'm not exactly sure.

Oh yeah, I know its never big pimping when Zimmers play, but that tour was one of the few times they could actually call the shots against a test side, definitely would have got some good money out of it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh yeah, I know its never big pimping when Zimmers play, but that tour was one of the few times they could actually call the shots against a test side, definitely would have got some good money out of it.

A big problem Zimbabwe face is their ridiculously high expenses on account of just how corrupt their board is. They often make a loss in a series even when they've got good money for the broadcast rights which just isn't right, particularly given how little they actually pay the players.

 

[Furball]

None of those things mean anywhere near as much to Irish cricket as a lack of proper funding. Not even in the same ballpark.

It all plays a part. Keep your best players, get better results, get more funding. Classic virtuous/vicious cycle.

I also don't think there's any doubt in my mind that the ICC could do far more for those associates with full ODI status. Ireland have beaten full members at each of the last 3 World Cups, yet they're still in a position where they get next to **** all in funding, very little in the way of meaningful ODIs against full sides, and have had the door firmly slammed in their face when it comes to future World Cup participation.

 

[Shady Slim]

congrats pakistan on being number one woop woop

edit: hey there's a thread lol

 

[Tec15]

Tim Wigmore on Ireland's proud history, bright future, uncertain present | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo Interesting article about Ireland aspiring to be the "European New Zealand". Didn't know that so many of the current Irish batsmen have washed out of County cricket. And to think a few months ago, people here were seriously suggesting that that they had a better batting lineup than Bangladesh.

 

[Shady Slim]

apparently england are pondering three spinners for the ODIs

we saw in the tests how pakistan couldn't cope with spin so this makes perfect sense

 

[91Jmay]

Using Pakistan's Test team as some kind of guide as to how their ODI team will play makes even less sense than England playing 3 spinners.

 

[theegyptian]

Kinda think playing Stokes as a bat alone (as he is today) in ODI cricket is an overindulgence. Then again the alternatives in the squad are Bairstow or Dawson (or play 6 bowlers) neither of whom I'm particularly high on. Bairstow though for me would be the better bat, and Dawson give the team better options.

 

[DriveClub]

Bairstow would be ideal for odis