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**Official** Pakistan and England in the UAE 2015/16

marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Cabinet96 said:
He didn't do jack ****, he had a good Championship season for the 2nd year in a row.
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Problem is he looked so out of his depth in the ODIs he played at the end of the season. I know it's a different format but as yet all he's actually shown himself to be is a class T20 player.
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
grecian said:
Guptill is the only one you may have a point with, the Warner thing makes little sense he was pretty much always awesome in limited-overs wasn't he. The basics of Hales seems to be ridiculously bad starter, and an inability to switch the strike, I'd play Roy with Ali because he ma?be better, but there's no way I'm convinced he has any more basic abilities than 100s of County players. I see no real evidence either hales/Roy will be a long-term partnership, I hope I'm wrong actually, we desperately need it. Yet on a small sample size Moeen looks better as opener than both.
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Warner certainly has not always looked an awesome ODI batsman. I don't know how much of AUS ODI team you follow, but his average has barely just crossed 35 in recent times & that is due to his ODI form starting to somewhat resemble his test match output. Heck even his T20 average at international level isn't fully reflective of where it should be.

I don't necessarily have a problem with Moeen opening however he is versatile enough to slot in anywhere in top 6 & do well. But as you say yourself ENG need (maybe not desperately) for Hales/Roy to click - since everyone knows what that could mean to the further evolution of the ODI team looking ahead to the useless champions trophy & more importantly WC 2019, both in ENG.
 
theegyptian

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
FBU said:
I think they are being given a run until the SA series no matter how good or bad they are. So it will be about 20 ODIs.
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I think this is basically true and there is some merit in it. It's certainly better than selecting and dropping guys after 4 or 5 odis at a time. County cricket isn't of a high enough standard for every player to come in from it to international level and be 'international' standard. You've got to work with those you think have the best chances of stepping up. Not give them carte blanche to be **** for as long as they want, but give them 15 or 20 odis in different conditions against different teams and then make a judgement.

Sure if you want to select your best team then Ali would probably be opening with Roy/Hales - but also Anderson and Broad would still be in the team. They're building to a world cup so they have to balance the short term with the long term.

Ali has improved as an ODI opener due to exposure at the highest level. Playing 19 tests against good bowlers has gotten him used to the pace and skills of the bowlers. You'd hope Hales and Roy will see similar improvements in time. Roy has shown improvement, Hales looks vulnerable as he struggled with the pace against AUS and has more experience than Roy.

My worry would be if they drop Hales at this point, he would be back in three games later after a couple of Roy failures, and they would be in a constant state of flux with the team and nobody would ever improve. The likes of Hales and Roy aren't improving by going back to county cricket. You back them if you think they are good enough and give them a good run.

Regarding Roy I feel he is a little harshly treated by some on here. There is the talent there imo. You see the way he played Starc, Cummins and Pattinson bowling 90mph+ and he was dismissive of them at times. He was going at 100+ sr without trying anything particularly extravagent against them. How many players are coming from county cricket and looking so comfortable against that pace and having so many scoring options? He needs to find consistency of technique and with his approach to batting but the talent is there.
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
theegyptian said:
I think this is basically true and there is some merit in it. It's certainly better than selecting and dropping guys after 4 or 5 odis at a time. County cricket isn't of a high enough standard for every player to come in from it to international level and be 'international' standard. You've got to work with those you think have the best chances of stepping up. Not give them carte blanche to be **** for as long as they want, but give them 15 or 20 odis in different conditions against different teams and then make a judgement.

Sure if you want to select your best team then Ali would probably be opening with Roy/Hales - but also Anderson and Broad would still be in the team. They're building to a world cup so they have to balance the short term with the long term.

Ali has improved as an ODI opener due to exposure at the highest level. Playing 19 tests against good bowlers has gotten him used to the pace and skills of the bowlers. You'd hope Hales and Roy will see similar improvements in time. Roy has shown improvement, Hales looks vulnerable as he struggled with the pace against AUS and has more experience than Roy.

My worry would be if they drop Hales at this point, he would be back in three games later after a couple of Roy failures, and they would be in a constant state of flux with the team and nobody would ever improve. The likes of Hales and Roy aren't improving by going back to county cricket. You back them if you think they are good enough and give them a good run.

Regarding Roy I feel he is a little harshly treated by some on here. There is the talent there imo. You see the way he played Starc, Cummins and Pattinson bowling 90mph+ and he was dismissive of them at times. He was going at 100+ sr without trying anything particularly extravagent against them. How many players are coming from county cricket and looking so comfortable against that pace and having so many scoring options? He needs to find consistency of technique and with his approach to batting but the talent is there.
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On point like a laser beam with this post.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Black_Warrior said:
Completely agree with you on all points. But I understand where he is coming from. This is a culture which does not value test cricket as the supreme form of cricket. It does perhaps give more importance to LO cricket. World Cup or World T20 or Asia Cup these are far more important among the 'fans'. I mean the very reason that Pakistan fans think 90s was a great decade (despite such a poor test record) is because Pakistan used to win major ODI tournaments back then.

Now, Younis Khan, despite being arguably one of the greatest batsmen the country has produced, knows very well that all his achievements amount to not much among Pakistan fans. He was narrating a sad story once how in 2006 in a test match against India, he and Yousuf were both batting on centuries and he was nearing a double, and the crowd was chanting Afridi Afridi Afridi and asking both him and Yousuf to get out so they could watch Afridi bat.

I know what he wants. He wants to contribute something major like World Cup or Champions Trophy now since I doubt even he thinks he can last another 4 years. He mentioned during the 2015 WC about the desire to emulate Miandad because let's face it.. Miandad and Imran are not heroes for 8.5k plus runs at 52 and 362 wickets at 22. They are immortal heroes for winning the 92 WC.

So I can understand at an individual level where he is coming from and his frustration at lack of any major recognition among the masses. He can score 10K runs at 54 and no one will care.

But from the team's perspective, this is hurting Pakistan ODI side badly. It hurts the team balance and more importantly keeps out Rizwan or Babar Azam. I am a huge fan of both and would love to see both in action in the 4 ODIs.

Azhar
Hafeez
Babar
Malik
Rizwan
Sarfraz
Asif
Anwar
Yamin
Yasir
Irfan

I really don't want Wahab playing these ODIs. The guy alread looked jaded in the third test after the marathon spells of the first 2 test matches. The last thing you want is another major injury like Junaid's case and then coming back after 4 months out of the game.

When will Pakistan learn to manage their fast bowlers like Steym, MJ, Anderson ?
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Awesome post.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah Roy averaged 40, but FMD it was a weird series for him. Sometimes he was hitting utterly insane shots that take incredible skill and a large chunk of ego to make his 40 @ 100. Other times he was looking an utter hack, putting away Jimmy "I suck with a white ball" Pattinson without ever finding the middle of his bat and top edging slogs 3/4 of the way to the rope.

Basically, he's a complete and utter spud. He's essentially the English Devcich or Munro in his batting style. It ain't sustainable.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
I will never be proven wrong on this point, ftr. Much as nothing will ever convince me that Vijay is a Test standard bat or PEWS is a human being.
 
theegyptian

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
Interesting to see how the fast bowlers go. Willey and Topley are pedestrian but with reasonable variation. Ali and Rashid's bowling should be better suited to the 4 men on the boundary game. Onus is really on the batsmen because the bowling certainly isn't going to fire the opposition out.
 
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