**Official** Pakistan and England in the UAE 2015/16

[artvandalay]

Beggars belief how a player who is so elegant and whose shots seem to be right out of the MCC coaching manual can find such stupid ways of getting out. He's become a mere passenger nowadays which is unfortunate because in full flow he is so good to watch.

 

[wpdavid]

Hold on Pakistan are getting credit for 11 players? On what planet, their opener with Hafeez has been putrid and Zufi has been as threatening as a water pistol against an aircraft carrier.

OK, 8 against 9.
We're still a man down though.

 

[wpdavid]

Beggars belief how a player who is so elegant and whose shots seem to be right out of the MCC coaching manual can find such stupid ways of getting out. He's become a mere passenger nowadays which is unfortunate because in full flow he is so good to watch.

I think there's a mental thing with Bell. No idea what, and I hesitate to indulge in amateur psychology, but something isn't quite right.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

So every other series somehow becomes Bell's last chance

 

[Pothas]

That really is one of the more damning indictments of Ian Bell that I've read, even on these pages. If we only expect a top order batsman with > 100 tests to average 20something, then we might as well give up.

Beyond that, at the risk of being awkward ....
I'm not sure we expected Rashid to be as poor as he has been. No-one seriously expected him to be great, despite what one or two posters will persist in calling the 'hype' about him, but I expected something better than his series average of about 70, iirc. I'm not convinced that Bairstow or Stokes improved massively. Stokes bowled OK, but his batting as continued to be dire. Bairstow has continued to make starts without going on with it, and his missed stumping at the start of today may well have cost us the match.

Basically we've been trying to win despite playing about 8 against 11.

Remember how awful we were last time though, with a much better team? I think Bairstow and Stokes have both shown some good things this series. Really it has been a very good team effort let down by the spin. Rashid had pretty much gone exactly as I would have expected, I really hoped Moeen would have bowled better, so desperately want him to do well and he is probably still the best we have got but we will need to see improvement or we will have to try something else.

As for the 8 against 11 thing has there ever been a series where everyone has played well?

You are right about Bell of course, he can do the SA tour, then Vince can get a load of runs for Hampshire at the start of the season and he can replace him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Great analysis about the 2013 ashes. Also, without your parents having *** that time you wouldn't be here. You can't just discount that series.

And Taylor is not a number 3 bat. He has almost never batted there in first class cricket. His great strength is playing spin. His great weakness is playing pace. He falls over often and as a result is a big lbw candidate and knicks off to the slips too much as well. His best position is 5 or 6 where he can face an older ball. He wouldn't average more than 20 at 3.

You think Bell wants to be batting at 3? Of course not, he'd much prefer 5 or 6 where he has scored tons of runs - and in all likelihood would still be scoring lots of runs. But you move around to best suit the team.

Woah there, you did a good job ignoring the context of me pointing out that his 2013 ashes was the only good series he's had in ages.. (ie) that fans have held that series up as this symbol of hope of what Bell is capable of and what he may produce. In the middle of 2 and a half years of absolutely nothing. I really don't think it's worth it even if by some miracle he has a series like that again in the near future.

And really if Taylor can't average more than 20 at 3 he might as well give up international cricket.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Remember how awful we were last time though, with a much better team? I think Bairstow and Stokes have both shown some good things this series. Really it has been a very good team effort let down by the spin. Rashid had pretty much gone exactly as I would have expected, I really hoped Moeen would have bowled better, so desperately want him to do well and he is probably still the best we have got but we will need to see improvement or we will have to try something else.

As for the 8 against 11 thing has there ever been a series where everyone has played well?

You are right about Bell of course, he can do the SA tour, then Vince can get a load of runs for Hampshire at the start of the season and he can replace him.

I have been encouraged by the way they have fought and know they will again tomorrow. It may give us a very honourable series draw but I fear we will fall short and end with a 2-0 defeat but the fact they have stuck at it all the way through has been great.

The two sides having 8 or so players doing something is the same in every series, there are always players carried to some extent sometimes more than others.

As for Bell, I would drop him now but I can see the argument for taking him to SA and then starting fresh next summer if it doesn't work. Blooding a new player at home is easier than away to the number 1 side in the world. He may benefit if Stokes is ruled out as they may not want too much change in the side in one go.

 

[theegyptian]

Woah there, you did a good job ignoring the context of me pointing out that his 2013 ashes was the only good series he's had in ages.. (ie) that fans have held that series up as this symbol of hope of what Bell is capable of and what he may produce. In the middle of 2 and a half years of absolutely nothing. I really don't think it's worth it even if by some miracle he has a series like that again in the near future.

And really if Taylor can't average more than 20 at 3 he might as well give up international cricket.

Apologies if that was your intent. I assumed you were talking to me as I'd made the most recent Bell comment of any note and you seemed to be answering my post, when I hadn't made any kind of reference to the 2013 ashes.

That really is one of the more damning indictments of Ian Bell that I've read, even on these pages. If we only expect a top order batsman with > 100 tests to average 20something, then we might as well give up.

Beyond that, at the risk of being awkward ....
I'm not sure we expected Rashid to be as poor as he has been. No-one seriously expected him to be great, despite what one or two posters will persist in calling the 'hype' about him, but I expected something better than his series average of about 70, iirc. I'm not convinced that Bairstow or Stokes improved massively. Stokes bowled OK, but his batting as continued to be dire. Bairstow has continued to make starts without going on with it, and his missed stumping at the start of today may well have cost us the match.

Basically we've been trying to win despite playing about 8 against 11.

He averaged 31.6 and played a couple of decent knocks. Currently better than Ali, Bairstow, Stokes and Buttler. Slightly less than his career average in Asia which includes averaging 130 in two tests in Bangladesh. Not what you really want from a senior player agreed.

If they wanted to drop him they should have done it before this tour knowing that he struggles in the conditions. As he's done allright I'd be inclined to keep him for SA for the reasons I've mentioned earlier.

I was going to defend the other points but people are probably bored with me at this point. People will believe what they want to believe.

 

[weldone]

England is likely to get 50+ lead. Yasir and co. must make sure it doesn't become 100+. After that, it's upto the batsmen to stand up and deliver and post a 250+ target for the 4th innings.

Things have gone according to this plan so far.

 

[Gnske]

If they wanted to drop him they should have done it before this tour knowing that he struggles in the conditions. As he's done allright I'd be inclined to keep him for SA for the reasons I've mentioned earlier.

This must be how the England selectors think in keeping the most dire of specimens.

 

[smash84]

Things have gone according to this plan so far.

not bad,

so what do you think the final score wil look like?

 

[Athlai]

Whats with all the Mailk wickets?

 

[Furball]

Ian Bell

 

[Black_Warrior]

Woah there, you did a good job ignoring the context of me pointing out that his 2013 ashes was the only good series he's had in ages.. (ie) that fans have held that series up as this symbol of hope of what Bell is capable of and what he may produce. In the middle of 2 and a half years of absolutely nothing. I really don't think it's worth it even if by some miracle he has a series like that again in the near future.

And really if Taylor can't average more than 20 at 3 he might as well give up international cricket.

It isn't entirely like that though, although I can see how that impression can be given based on just the average.

Up to the first 2-3 Ashes tests in Australia 2013, he looked England's best batsman. In the first two tests, he was running out of partners while looking at his best. There was a lot of talk about promoting him up the order but they didn't.
2nd Test: Australia v England at Adelaide, Dec 5-9, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Funny thing is, they didn't promote him when he was clearly the best batsman in the series. Who knows he might have piled up a few hundreds in that series too.

Then earlier this year, he scored a hundred in West Indies, and a couple of 50s in the Ashes. Again, before I am misunderstood, I am not trying to say it is enough or justify his position in the team. All I am saying is, in between the 2013 Ashes in England and now, there have been moments when he has looked to be regaining his best touch, thus giving the team and the selectors the hope. He hasn't looked as bad as some players have at the tail end of their careers...so it always gives the selectors the hope that maybe he has some left in him.

Whether he still has one last hurrah left, I don't know.

 

[Furball]

13 wickets @ 15 for Anderson this series.

Just quietly, the best ever figures for a 3 Test series in the UAE by a quick bowler.

 

[Black_Warrior]

13 wickets @ 15 for Anderson this series.

Just quietly, the best ever figures for a 3 Test series in the UAE by a quick bowler.

Does the name Clouderson get thrown around anymore? Guy has been quietly performing in Asia since the 2012 series but no one seems to remember because it ended in 0-3.

 

[social]

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but wtf were England thinking when selecting Ali to open?

He is nothing more than a good striker with a very loose technique and should rarely be called upon to bat above 7 in tests until he improves a lot

 

[Furball]

Does the name Clouderson get thrown around anymore?

Yes, by idiots.

 

[Pothas]

Playing Patel really was very silly. To think that in the past they were so reluctant to even pick two proper spinners, and that is when they were actually good ones available.

 

[hendrix]

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but wtf were England thinking when selecting Ali to open?

He is nothing more than a good striker with a very loose technique and should rarely be called upon to bat above 7 in tests until he improves a lot

McCullum wrote an article.

Nah but are we expecting Hales or Bell to have done any better? It was a lose-lose and they've taken the option that gives them a more varied attack. Right call IMO.