• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* NZ Domestic Season

Kent

State 12th Man
Arjun said:
Canning is a 'keeper-stand-up medium-pacer. How useful will he be?
Well you did ask about 'on the domestic scene'! A quality keeper could stand up to a lot of NZ domestic "spearheads".

Anyway Arjun, what was your original question angling at? Are you thinking NZ need to replace Cairns in the test side with someone better than Oram?
 

Kent

State 12th Man
bryce said:
yeah i read that too - looked rather childish to me but crowes not one to sit back and cop the criticism.
crowe said that new zealander's are too busy complaining about the wickets instead of getting foward and using soft hands.
Hang on, I'm just checking my copy of The Crowe Style - "There were many reasons [I signed with Central Districts when I was 21]: I needed a change, the good wickets in the Central Districts area..."

As Crowe alluded to in that book, what's so wrong with strokemakers wanting more consistent pitches? Seam movement and playing nothing off the back foot creates very dogged, one-dimensional batsmen, not to mention helping mediocre medium-pacers thrive.
 
Last edited:

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Results from the provincial A tourney:

Results from fourth-round two-day matches at the Provincial A cricket tournament in Christchurch today:-
Otago 387 (Jordan Sheed 159, Marcel McKenzie 86; Regan West 7-124) bt Central Districts 283 (Duncan Cederman 58, Brendon Diamanti 51; David Sewell 5-50) on the first innings.
Wellington 278-6 dec lost to Northern Districts 338-6 (Jaden Hatwell 66no, Nick Horsley 64, Te Ahu Davis 62; Josh Stuart 3-58) on the first innings.
Canterbury 429-9 dec drew with Auckland 354-9 (Matt Cairns 116no, Paul Hitchcock 55, Hayden Smith 42; Leighton Burtt 3-41).
Standings: Otago 54.705 points, Northern Districts 52.09, Central Districts 32.43, Wellington 30.21, Canterbury 22.54, Auckland 19.565.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Well you did ask about 'on the domestic scene'! A quality keeper could stand up to a lot of NZ domestic "spearheads".

Anyway Arjun, what was your original question angling at? Are you thinking NZ need to replace Cairns in the test side with someone better than Oram?
Tama Canning was mentioned a few times before by fans, but are such bowlers really useful? They may be hittable when pitches offer even a little more bounce.

About my question, I just wanted to know who are the all-rounders in New Zealand, particularly the more effective ones, so that you have enough backup for Styris and Oram. I still don't know why Mills bats at Number 11, with his FC average.
 

bryce

International Regular
thanks voltman - saves me having to go to the NZ cricket site.

Arjun said:
Tama Canning was mentioned a few times before by fans, but are such bowlers really useful? They may be hittable when pitches offer even a little more bounce.

About my question, I just wanted to know who are the all-rounders in New Zealand, particularly the more effective ones, so that you have enough backup for Styris and Oram. I still don't know why Mills bats at Number 11, with his FC average.
they are the most effective ones, aswell as glenn sulzberger who's had a decent start to the season but he isn't international material, there are some younger ones playing domestic cricket like andrew ellis and luke woodcock but they haven't quite set the domestic competition on fire.
mills bats so low because, tbh that is where he deserves to bat given the batting prowess of the other bowlers, of course he will either move up or move out when daryl tuffey and(if) shane bond come back
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
mills bats so low because, tbh that is where he deserves to bat given the batting prowess of the other bowlers, of course he will either move up or move out when daryl tuffey and(if) shane bond come back
Should he even be in the XI? There may be better specialist bowlers in NZ better than him. Lance Hamilton and Michael Mason have been discussed a few times.
 

bryce

International Regular
hamilton is a bit old now and doesn't put up the numbers he used to anymore - he was close to selection once IIRC when steve waugh was singing his praises but that was a few years back, mason is good line and length bowler and may or may not come back but he did get given a shot and didn't fare too well
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
He made his debut in ODI's, didn't he? They can be cruel to rookie fast bowlers, with defensive fields, fielding restrictions and the frightful final overs. They have to try to save runs, rather than take wickets.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Mills actually played for the NZ U19's mainly as a batsman, he only started bowling once he thought he needed to get an extra edge to get higher honours.

He may now have to do the reverse to stay in the Black-Caps should we start bringing in some quicker bowlers.
 

cric_manic

First Class Debutant
no our bowlers are fine,its a good bowling unit guys like Oram,Tuffy and mills have shown alot of promise for the future.Australia dont have eny fast bowlers in there playing XI at the moment there guys can only bowl max of 140k's but they bowl good line and length and thats all our bowler need to learn to do, speed is useless if your bowler dont bowl the right channels
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
no our bowlers are fine,its a good bowling unit guys like Oram,Tuffy and mills have shown alot of promise for the future.Australia dont have eny fast bowlers in there playing XI at the moment there guys can only bowl max of 140k's but they bowl good line and length and thats all our bowler need to learn to do, speed is useless if your bowler dont bowl the right channels
Line and length is no doubt the most important, but it is not so useful if the batsmen get used to it and build a partnership. They can then take advantage of the lack of pace. McGrath is a role-model for accuracy, but batsmen such as Razzaq, McMillan, Cairns and now Sehwag have been hitting him around for lots of runs. Pace is difficult to play unless the batsmen are used to it. There is little time to react. Moreover, if a few quick ones are mixed, it keeps the batsmen guessing. On dry pitches with nothing for seamers, it's the faster bowlers who are more effective. Seam and swing can make things tougher, as long as conditions favour them.

Ideally, the pace attack should have two bowlers who stick to a tight line and length, while a third can attack with pace, or movement. Or two attacking bowlers and one line/length bowler.

How about these bowling options?
  • Cairns
  • Bond
  • Vettori
  • Tuffey
  • Sherlock/Davis/Burtt/Butler
  • Franklin
  • Harris
  • Oram*
  • Styris*
The last two are not strike bowlers. There is enough variety in the attack- two fast bowlers, one slightly-faster-than-medium pacer with seam movement, one left-arm swing bowler, a left-arm spinner and a multi-purpose bowler who can bowl slow-medium, leg break and off-spin. And of course, three medium-pacers to stick to a line and length. Oram and Martin are not likely to do much as strike bowlers, so other options should be considered, such as the new pack of pacers in the news.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I saw an interview on tv the other day with Te Ahu Davis and he said Denis Lillee reckoned he was in the low to mid 140's...which is pretty impressive for a guy who's only just turned 19....by the time he reaches the age of 24/25 he could be up into the 150's hopefully.

The best time to blood a new quick would be when NZ have Bond & Tuffey back aswell as Cairns there for experience...at this stage Butler is probably that man...but I really like the look of both Sherlock & Davis at this stage.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
What i'd like to see perhaps at the end of the year or into next year is this ODI team:

from #6 downwards:

Cairns
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Bond
Tuffey

That is an extremely good ODI attack...if McCullum started to hit runs consistently then you could even debate moving him to #3 & bringing in someone like Sherlock.

Astle
Fleming
McCullum
Styris
Marshall
Cairns
Oram
Vettori
Bond
Tuffey
Sherlock

Vettori I reckon is good enough to bat #8 & certainly Bond & Tuffey know how to hold a bat.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Astle probably gets saved by the fact that How, Ryder & company haven't exactly put huge runs on the board this season in the State Shield..his only challenger is probably Michael Papps.

Another bolter for the lower order could be Jeff Wilson...his form has been outstanding once again (when fit).
 
Last edited:

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Astle
...
Sherlock
Whay have six bowlers and a seventh for support?
Astle probably gets saved by the fact that How, Ryder & company haven't exactly put huge runs on the board this season in the State Shield..his only challenger is probably Michael Papps.
Peter Fulton may also be worth a try, given his figures.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah i'd say he'd be pressuring Scott Styris at #4 than an openers spot though.

As for that bowling line-up..you'd be looking to use:

Bond
Tuffey
Sherlock
Oram
Cairns
Vettori

Styris & Astle only necessary if runs need to be stemmed.

That way, they only have to concentrate on their batting at the top of the order.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Styris & Astle only necessary if runs need to be stemmed.

That way, they only have to concentrate on their batting at the top of the order.
Since that tour of West Indies, Styris has been in fantastic all-round form. Opportunists would exploit it. That way, an extra batsman can be brought in, since the team needs more runs.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Fair point...I guess instead of blooding Sherlock they could go for a rookie batsman like Ross Taylor or Peter Fulton.
 

bryce

International Regular
i don't think the selectors can afford to drop styris from the ODI side given his all-round skills, if his batting keeps going the way it is then maybe he could be used a bit lower in the order.
i like the look of jeff wilson too and reckon he'd fit right into the ODI side - glenn turner also said he is one of the best slip fielders he's ever seen
 

anzac

International Debutant
Tim said:
Astle probably gets saved by the fact that How, Ryder & company haven't exactly put huge runs on the board this season in the State Shield..his only challenger is probably Michael Papps.
so they drop Sinclair who has been one of the more consistant performers in both forms of the game this season????
 

Top