*Official* NZ Domestic Season

[bryce]

on saturday the University Oval in Dunedin was officially opened as the Otago regions main ground, they are hoping to establish it as a test venue in the next couple of years

 

[Macka]

The depth that keeps being talked about on here is not quite there-never has been. I heard it described once well by Allen Macca- the cricket and league commentator saying 'Australia have a depth of talented players, we have SOME talented players'. I think that is well said.

Nathan Astle has scored 9 test centuries and 13 or 14 ODI centuries, we just cant afford to throw all that away because of some lofty notion or the latest theory thats been going the rounds. In my opinion, and i have always been a big Astle fan he happens to be our second best batsmen.

There is no depth in New Zealand cricket. It's all good and well to say that when Bond and Tuffey are in the team, but look what happens when they aren't. Just look at the lack of top-order options around. Who actually averages more than 40 in any form of NZ domestic cricket (that isn't set in the NZ side)? Fulton, Sinclair...I'm struggling. I hope there is more but I'm not about to go through the stats. Sure the pitches aren't all that great at times but surely a few more top-order players can do better.

Astle is a great ODI batsman but as a test match bastman he hasn't done all that well. An average of around 37 isn't exactly world-class. Astle's run of form has been very poor lately, I think his position in the side must be in trouble. Perhaps the lack of other options kept him in the side along with his experience. But then again, who apart from Richardson actually has a decent average? Oram? Oh wait, he bats 6-7.

 

[Macka]

Not a bad team but I'd have How opening with Fleming, Sinclair at 4, Astle at 5, and McCullum at 6. Thus, leaving Styris out as he is not an all-rounder in test matches. And as was already said, "Five bowlers is enough".

If you need part-time bowlers to rest the strike bowlers, then How and Fulton could potentially fill this. Not really there to break partnerships, as Styris doesn't.

Yeah, ideally Sinclair would be at 4. However he looks set to open against Sri Lanka.

 

[Kent]

You guys keep banging on about players like mcintosh, gaffeney, cumming, ryder, taylor-the list goes on. But just because you score a century once in a while or show some 'promise' does not make you close to test consideration. What we need from those players is a greater maturity, knowing how to score a century, knowing how to get through difficult spells at the crease rather than flailing the bat and giving it away. Let me state that most of the players mentioned are talented but are young and have not matured yet.

The depth that keeps being talked about on here is not quite there-never has been. I heard it described once well by Allen Macca- the cricket and league commentator saying 'Australia have a depth of talented players, we have SOME talented players'. I think that is well said.

I think you'll find very few CW posters are putting Ryder, Taylor etc. in their test sides, but personally I enjoy hearing people speculate about where players are on the food chain. IMO it's one of the pleasures of site like this that you can discuss alternatives, even ones that may seem pretty unconventional.

After all, someone crying out for H Marshall to get a run in the OD side 15 months ago probably would've been laughed off the forum, yet obviously would've since had the chance to bask in 'I told you so's'.

Nathan Astle has scored 9 test centuries and 13 or 14 ODI centuries, we just cant afford to throw all that away because of some lofty notion or the latest theory thats been going the rounds.

But don't forget everyone has to start somewhere. Coming in with the very big shoes of guys like Martin Crowe and Andrew Jones to fill, Astle made his NZ debut as a 23 y.o. with two FC centuries to his name.

 

[Tim]

I was fortunate enough today to hear Stephen Fleming speak at the Chamber of Commerce Christmas function. Howard Dobson from TV3 was the MC & I thought he did a good job.

A few questions were asked about McMillan & Bond.
Fleming said he's doing his best to make sure McMillan gets back to form & that he's still an intergral part of the NZ team.
Fleming said he thinks Bond will definately play again & that Bond doesn't want to bowl 130km's, he wants to bowl 150km's +..so if that doesn't work for him he'll quit for sure.

He also talked about sledging, the ill-fated Pakistan tour, previous coaches & the dope smoking incident in South Africa.

 

[Tim]

I certainly haven't been suggesting we've got depth in domestic cricket...but I do think we've got more raw talent coming through than we've ever had.

 

[Tim]

I just remembered a funny story Fleming said today. I don't know if anybody heard about it, but after the final test India v Australia test earlier in the year there was wide-spread criticism of the pitch.

Of course these days players are fined for criticising umpires or pitches, but Jason Gillespie came up with a great way of getting around that.
When asked what he thought of the pitch, Gillespie replied: "I wasn't sure what to make of it, but my mate thought it was sh*t-house"

lol..brilliant.

 

[bryce]

I certainly haven't been suggesting we've got depth in domestic cricket...but I do think we've got more raw talent coming through than we've ever had.

yeah, not so much in the bowling department though IMO

 

[Tim]

Spin is a huge concern...but there have been some encouraging pace bowling performances in the U19 tournaments.

Certainly though it seems that Canterbury & Auckland have a few up & coming top order batsmen.

 

[bryce]

yeah ND have a couple too, watch out for Nick Fitzgerald and Sam McCloud, both finished their seventh form years this year, Fitzgerald went to my school and averaged an incredible 95 over the year, he is also a very good wicketkeeper.

 

[Tim]

Guptill, De Boorder & Cachopa have been big run-scorers in Auckland club cricket...but I feel we are some way off from seeing these guys.
Let's face it..we're going to have to wait several years for depth to build up because for some reason the Academy has not been able to bring through enough talent over the last year or 2.

 

[bryce]

yeah it's strange, the bulk of these young players seem to get lost into club cricket

 

[bryce]

bruce martin made a successful comeback to bowling in the weekend in the ND minor association one day tournament called the brian dunning cup, in the 2 games he played on saturday and sunday he took 2/23 off seven overs and 2/41 off 10, for the record northland won the tournament - their team contained four players with first class experience: the marshall brothers, joseph yovich and jamie lee aswell as nz academy player brad wilson, daniel vettori was a late withdrawal from the tournament with a minor hamstring tweak.

 

[anzac]

The good thing about Astle is whenever he gets an odi century, NZ wins the match. One cannot let that go

I was only referring to Test matches atm..................

 

[marc71178]

I certainly haven't been suggesting we've got depth in domestic cricket...but I do think we've got more raw talent coming through than we've ever had.

Out of interest, what do you put that down to?

 

[marc71178]

Spin is a huge concern...

But how big an issue is that really?

You don't get to play that many games where spin is crucial, and Vettori is far from old!

 

[anzac]

You guys keep banging on about players like mcintosh, gaffeney, cumming, ryder, taylor-the list goes on. But just because you score a century once in a while or show some 'promise' does not make you close to test consideration. What we need from those players is a greater maturity, knowing how to score a century, knowing how to get through difficult spells at the crease rather than flailing the bat and giving it away. Let me state that most of the players mentioned are talented but are young and have not matured yet.

ordinarily I'd tend to agree - my ideal is to have talented / promising players developed at State & 'A' levels, and then introduced to the big time via a squad spot on a tour to play midweek games etc...........however most test series nowadays seem abbreviated affairs with few warm up matches & the 'test' players need these as much as anyone.........

however IMO these are not ordinary times as I feel the batting has reached crisis levels regarding the extraordinary frequency of mini & major collapses...........someone posted on another thread that PAK are becoming predictable in this regard - afaic the only difference between PAK & NZL in that regard is that NZL seldom do it 2 innings in the same match...............other than that I'd say that in recent times NZL would have possibly the worst record for batting collapses this decade!!!!!!!!!!!!

part of the problem IMO has been the conservative nature of player / squad selections, a major issue is the 'convert' syndrome, and to a lesser extent my 'horses for courses' application..............with our current Test ranking as low as it is & things being so tight from 3-7, we could well end up in 7th spot on current trend / form..........we are unlikely to drop any further into the clutches of ZIM / BAN, so why not do the hard yards now & rebuild & develop - we have to do it at some stage, or do we retain players until they decide to retire???????????

I'm not talking about a revolving door policy as they have shown in the past, but at least look to give players a decent chance to prove themselves...........& part of this would mean not playing them above their 'natural' station, or in circumstances that do not suit their style / type of play.............

the players I've promoted are all top order 'specialists' - i.e. they are 'proper' batsmen with 'proper' techniques, and face the bowling at it's best and the pitch at it's worst...............likewise all have managed to post BIG scores of 150+ on at least 1 occaision so they know what is required regarding application..........IMO a ton from a top order player is worth an extra 50 runs from a middle - lower order player.........primarily because to do so they will face the prime of the bowling & new ball at least twice.............

I've also included the likes of Cumming & Gaffaney because they have been around the scene for a while, and while they may not be long term prospects they could provide a transition for 3 - 5 seasons until the younger 2nd / 3rd tier gain more experience (Ryder, Taylor, Stewart, Nichol etc)...........

finally we have the Marshall precedent - no FC averages to get excited about yet look at what he has been able to do, not only so far as his personal contribution goes, but also IMO regarding the improved development of batting partnerships when he has been at the crease.............

lets face it - basically afaic our domestic pitches are crap for batting on unless you are primarily a middle order flogger that likes it low & slow in order to get the big stick out..............

somethings got to give.................

 

[anzac]

Nathan Astle has scored 9 test centuries and 13 or 14 ODI centuries, we just cant afford to throw all that away because of some lofty notion or the latest theory thats been going the rounds. In my opinion, and i have always been a big Astle fan he happens to be our second best batsmen.

possibly our 2nd best because we do not have many 'proper' batsmen in the side??????????

I've been a fan of Astel in ODIs, but I have serious questions regarding his retention in the Test team..................

eg Astle, Vincent, Styris & Macca scored good solid tons in IND - our last consistant batting performance by the team IMO,
Vincent failed in 4 single figure innings v PAK at Home & was dropped.......
Macca has only scored 3 tons v ZIM, BAN & IND this decade - after IND in 12 innings he scored 1x50 v RSA & has been dropped...........
Astle's ton in IND is his only since the WR 222 v ENG in 01/02 - since his return from injury he has played 12 innings for 2x50s & has averaged lower than his career average in every series..............
Styris since IND has played 21 innings for 2x100s & 3x50s................

you tell me who should be looked at re the batting lineup?????????

 

[bryce]

state shield squads for tomorrows round have been named, auckland looks probaly looks the strongest side but expect every team to be quite competitive,
the teams are,

Auckland: Brooke Walker - captain, Andre Adams, Aaron Barnes, Tama Canning, Paul Hitchcock, Matt Horne, Richard Jones, Rob Nicol, Keeley Todd, Lou Vincent, Kerry Walmsley, Reece Young.

Canterbury: Craig McMillan (captain), Michael Papps, Tim Papps, Peter Fulton, Tim McIntosh, Gary Stead, Paul Wiseman, Chris Martin, Hayden Shaw, Stephen Cunis, Andrew Ellis, Shanan Stewart, Brendon Donkers.

Central Districts: Glen Sulzberger (captain), Geoff Barnett, Duncan Cederman, Brendon Diamanti, Jarrod Englefield, Bevan Griggs, Lance Hamilton, Jamie How, Michael Mason, Andrew Schwass, Craig Spearman, Ewen Thompson.

Northern Districts: James Marshall (captain), Graeme Aldridge, Te Ahu Davis, Daniel Flynn, Matthew Hart, Jaden Hatwell (Hamilton), Llorne Howell, Bruce Martin, Peter McGalshan, Mark Orchard, Ryan Shutte, B.J Watling, Joseph Yovich.

Otago: Craig Cumming (captain), Chris Gaffaney, Gareth Hopkins, Nathan McCullum, Marcel McKenzie, James McMillan, Warren McSkimming, Aaron Redmond, Bradley Scott, Greg Todd, Muhammad Wasim, Jeff Wilson.

Wellington: Matthew Bell (captain), Michael Parlane, Chris Nevin, Jesse Ryder, Neal Parlane, James Franklin, Luke Woodcock, Mayu Pasupati, Graham Murray, Mark Gillespie, Ash Turner, Iain O'Brien, Jeetan Patel.

 

[anzac]

I am v disappointed at Macca being given the Cant captaincy over Fulton.....sure Fulton has not had a good run thus far, but apart from his intnl experience Macca has no better claim for the job IMO - certainly not on current form........

IMO Macca should firstly be given the task to justify his team starting spot b4 being given anything further - he failed in his only domestic innings thus far.......