**Official** New Zealand v World XI

[Retox]

Vincent throws this theory out the window. He scored a century on debut and went downhill thereafter. We need to stop wrapping the youngsters is cotton wool and throw them to the lions. This lack of confidence talk is what separates us from the Aussies over and above the population disparity.

Look what it did to McCullum though... He got destoryed. Granted he popped back but how do we know How,Fulton can do that? It could ruin these young players forever.

 

[bryce]

Look what it did to McCullum though... He got destoryed. Granted he popped back but how do we know How,Fulton can do that? It could ruin these young players forever.

i knew some people felt like this, my personal opinion is that this theory is a complete load of rubbish - who has it happened to anyway ?

 

[Ming]

I would be very surprised if they ever selected Craig Cumming again. He's been tried, failed and discarded already at nearly 30 years old. It would be a major back-foot step to go back to him.

What do you mean "go back to him"?

He's never been tried in Tests.

 

[Ming]

i knew some people felt like this, my personal opinion is that this theory is a complete load of rubbish - who has it happened to anyway ?

The likes of James Franklin who was probably introduced to international a fair bit too early. Although he still had a very impressive Test bowling record when he was dropped a few years ago.

I really wasn't that impressed with Cumming.

Cumming scored the most runs in the State Shield at 42.00 per match, but of course you aren't impressed. He's also averaging over 50 in the State Championship, but of course, you aren't impressed by that either. It's simple. Cumming has been the best and most consistent opener this season by far on the domestic circuit. Yet you still aren't impressed.

 

[Loony BoB]

Look what it did to McCullum though... He got destoryed. Granted he popped back but how do we know How,Fulton can do that? It could ruin these young players forever.

If that's the case, they need a good slapping around the ears and to be told to toughen up because in international cricket, crap like bad starts and bad form happens to the best of them. If they're going to get themselves emotionally scarred by the possibility of having a bad few tests against the best players in the world, then they don't deserve to be in international cricket at all. It's a man's game, and if they can't play against Australia because they get the heebie geebies, they can sod off until they can handle the possibility of having a bad day on the job and not needing a mummy to run back to at home.

I'm not a hard case tough'n'rough kind of guy, but if a player considers themselves to be "ruined forever" then they need to stop overdramatising and realise that you have to accept the bad things, learn from them and come back stronger the next time around.

Also, saying "what if they suck?!" is a bloody awful argument for not playing them. They could suck against Bangladesh for all I care. You need to play them and make judgement later. At least when you play them against Australia, you have little to lose anyway - it's not like many of our players average 50 against Aussie as it is.

And what's all this about McCullum being "destroyed" - he's now in Cricinfo articles comparing him to Sangakarra as the potential wicket keeper for the World XI to take on Australia later this year! "Destroyed" my ****, he's a brilliant player and who he was blooded against doesn't change that one bit.

 

[Loony BoB]

The likes of James Franklin who was probably introduced to international a fair bit too early. Although he still had a very impressive Test bowling record when he was dropped a few years ago.




Cumming scored the most runs in the State Shield at 42.00 per match, but of course you aren't impressed. He's also averaging over 50 in the State Championship, but of course, you aren't impressed by that either. It's simple. Cumming has been the best and most consistent opener this season by far on the domestic circuit. Yet you still aren't impressed.

Keep in mind Cumming has played five matches to Papps' three, where Papps averages 99.5 (199 runs including one not out) yet you say Cumming is the better opener. I don't know Cumming too well but that doesn't impress me one bit. Just checking and Cumming average 16 last season (80 runs, five innings, high score 52, one score not out). Surely you thinking that the lad, after just five matches this season, is the best opener on offer is a bit of a joke. Papps has him outdone on both fronts, this season.

For the record, Papps averaged 57.87 in his nine games last season (and due to the few matches played so far this year, it's only reasonable to look back to last season). That's the State Shield, anyway. State Championship Cumming averaged 34.71 in his eight innings, high scoring with 63*. Meanwhile Papps averaged 57.54 last season in eleven innings, making two centures and high scoring with 192.

Please, by all means - explain to me how Cumming is a better opener than Papps. I say this not knowing either batsman well, but for the love of God, man - stats can speak for themselves sometimes.

 

[Kippax]

And what's all this about McCullum being "destroyed" - he's now in Cricinfo articles comparing him to Sangakarra as the potential wicket keeper for the World XI to take on Australia later this year! "Destroyed" my ****, he's a brilliant player and who he was blooded against doesn't change that one bit.

It is interesting to hear McCullum say he actually feels lucky to have had all his flaws 'mapped out' for him at an early age. I've also heard tennis stars make similar comments about their first taste of the big-time when they were barely teenagers.

Rather than smugly going back to belting lesser bowlers and restoring his ego, McCullum went to work on improving his technique. The key I think for McCullum is he's naturally confident and positive, and I imagine never really doubted he could be good enough.

If other young players are more easily bruised, I'd say there's a 90% chance they'll never have it mentally to be an elite sportsman anyway.

 

[Ming]

Please, by all means - explain to me how Cumming is a better opener than Papps. I say this not knowing either batsman well, but for the love of God, man - stats can speak for themselves sometimes.

Yes, and Papps is only averaging a few runs in the State Championship.

I'm not suggesting Cumming for ODI opener, only for Tests. He's been the most consistent opener in the 4-day game this season.

 

[Loony BoB]

Yes, and Papps is only averaging a few runs in the State Championship.

I'm not suggesting Cumming for ODI opener, only for Tests. He's been the most consistent opener in the 4-day game this season.

No players have played more than three games this season in the state championship, hence judging players by this season alone is ridiculous. But! If you choose to go ahead that way...

Jamie How. Three matches, six innings, one not out, averages 84.60 with three centuries and a 50.
Lou Vincent. Three matches, four innings, one not out, averages 110.66 with a century and a fifty.
Craig Cumming. Three matches, six innings, no not outs, averages 39.50 with a century and a fifty.

Fact: Cumming's average is 17th in the State Championship this season. Vincent is second, How is third. Fleming is first, but we don't need to worry about that. There is also GR Todd, HJ Shaw, Sinclair, RA Jones, Marshall, Matt Horne, Englefield, Fairley, Franklin (hehe), Parlane, Canning, Yovich and Richardson (who for obvious reasons won't be opening for NZ at all now). You tell me how many of these guys are openers and I'll do some work and then tell you how many openers there are that are more consistent than Cumming. 39.50 average and 17th highest average is not the best in the land. Not close. And if you want consistency, How has achieved 100 in three innings and 50 in another - only less than that in two innings.

But again I say that no player has completed more than three (maybe four, not sure, as they might have not updated Cricinfo yet) games so far and judging them on their "season" is judging them on three games, and that's something that nobody in their right mind would do.

 

[marc71178]

And what's all this about McCullum being "destroyed" - he's now in Cricinfo articles comparing him to Sangakarra as the potential wicket keeper for the World XI to take on Australia later this year!

It's worth pointing out that that article was written by Lynn McConnell though...

 

[Ming]

No players have played more than three games this season in the state championship, hence judging players by this season alone is ridiculous. But! If you choose to go ahead that way...

No, I don't want to go that way.

I did the latest statistics following this round of matches, and How's average has dropped to around 65 from a flattering 85. Cumming following his 99* is averaging over 50 and has been very consistent with his scores and building good opening partnerships for Otago.

When I meant season, I meant that Cumming has been in good form in both the State Shield and Championship. I'm not pushing for Cumming into the Black Caps at all, I would rather see Fulton and Vincent bat at 3 with Fleming and Sinclair opening. But if the selectors prefer Sinclair at 3, then Cumming is the best option for opener.

We still have a long way to go till the Test series, and plenty of SC matches.

 

[Loony BoB]

It's worth pointing out that that article was written by Lynn McConnell though...

I'm not really up to scratch with journalists. Is she bias? I'll have to keep that in mind in the future I suppose.

Either way, I rate McCullum very highly and I know people around the world do too. I'd not rate him above Sangakarra, of course, but I'd probably rate him above most other wickeys in the world at the moment. He's also had a run of hard luck lately with umpiring decisions, too - and that means he could have better stats than he has at the moment.

 

[marc71178]

I'm not really up to scratch with journalists. Is she bias? I'll have to keep that in mind in the future I suppose.

He is one of these journos that has a very home country bias.

 

[Richard Rash]

I would be very surprised if they ever selected Craig Cumming again. He's been tried, failed and discarded already at nearly 30 years old. It would be a major back-foot step to go back to him.
Anyway, good debate guys and interesting to see what happens when the side for the Aussie series is named.

They won't pick Cumming and they most certainly won't open the batting with Nathen Astle..that is just insane and would also be a major back-foot step to try him out. His technical deficinces would be underlined and exploited by McGrath with a new ball.

It is really the worst situation we could ever ask for. I mean if we could ask for anyone not to play to try settle on an opening pair we most certainly would choose Australia. It is hard because i believe the ideal pair would be Papps and How long term and look at that young Pakistan guy Salmen Butt, he scored his first fifty and then first 100 against Aussie in that recent series and so maybe it will bring the best out in Papps and How and they will rise to the occasion.

Picking the best six batsman just doesn't work for me. I think you have to pick your best two specialist openers and then fit your next best four batsman in the 3-6 bracket. My top six for Australia would be...

Papps
How
Sinclair
Fleming
Astle
McCullum

 

[rogerramjet]

I did the latest statistics following this round of matches, and How's average has dropped to around 65 from a flattering 85. Cumming following his 99* is averaging over 50 and has been very consistent with his scores and building good opening partnerships for Otago.

It sounds to me like you're a huge fan of Cumming. The stats just don't support your argument. I haven't even heard him mentioned as an option in the media; quite rightly too IMHO.

 

[rogerramjet]

He is one of these journos that has a very home country bias.

He's preaching to the converted. We love to hear articles telling us how great our players are.

 

[marc71178]

Even Sideshow Bob?

 

[rogerramjet]

Even Sideshow Bob?

I don't think even Lynn McConnell would be so bold as to call Sideshow Bob one of the world greats. I've been surprised before though:-)

 

[Fiery]

We might have to get used to Sideshow Bob. He seems to be a Bracewell favourite and Oram is out for the season now. Terrible news for Black Caps fans but probably good news for him and Jeff Wilson

 

[Richard Rash]

Are there reserve days for the World XI games because the weather is very sh*t here in Wellington. I am pretty sure there will be no play today