***Official*** New Zealand in Zimbabwe & Zimbabwe/New Zealand/India ODI Tri-Series

[Macka]

Fair enough. So, in that case... Craig McMillan averages 38.46 over his career - higher than Nathan Astle and a good few runs above Lou Vincent. Which player do you pick? Hell, he nearly passes Stephen Fleming, too!

However, if anyone was smart and checked Macca's average for the two years prior to his last game, his average would shift down to 33.13. Try one year and it's 11.77.

You might call it manipulating an average, I call it being sensible and looking at current form.

I think there's a huge difference in leaving out statistics against the best team in the world, as opposed to leaving out statistics from poor teams. You're picking and choosing your statistics. First it was since Jan 2003 with Fleming opening against McGrath omitted, and now it's the last 20 Tests. Strangely enough, your shorter time period and picky selections have Fleming averaging 50+. Over a longer period, it converges closer to his equally disappointing career average.

Of course you absolutely have to take into account recent form. That's why Vincent will play the Tests against Zimbabwe. That's why McMillan is playing in England.

 

[Loony BoB]

'Higher than any other current New Zealand batsman.' Is this a reflection on Fleming's recent game, or New Zealand's poor batsmen? An average of 37-odd isn't what I would be calling excellent. It's average - just like Fleming's career statistics.

It doesn't matter. Either way he's donig better than the rest, and warrants selection based on it. To say he doesn't deserve a spot is ridiculous.

Again, you're picking and choosing your statistics. I don't believe you can just omit a couple of innings here and there because Fleming was facing McGrath. If he averaged 37, then he averaged 37.

I'm saying that no other batsman would have done any better than Fleming did at such a time. However, when he was batting at #3 and #4, he stuck a couple of solid 50's for NZ. The other scores by openers in the same series were all generally low - only one opener hit a half century in 3-5 tests, if I remember rightly.

Well, there's always a chance of that. Do you think he current rating - whatever it is - shows his ability? Do you believe he has more ability and natural talant than Scott, king of the drive in the V, Styris?

I think he's far more deserving of a spot than Styris, yes. But having said that, you're putting two of our top batsmen up against each other. There isn't just one batsman per team. Fleming is better than Astle, that's for certain. He's better than James Marshall and he's better than Cumming. As for Styris, I'd say Fleming is about even with him in batting skill, however Fleming is a brilliant captain. But as I said, I don't see why both of them can't play, as you're putting him up against one man, while when making my selections, I'm talking about a team of players. To say Fleming should be dropped from the team is laughable. That's what I've been saying all along.

 

[Loony BoB]

I think there's a huge difference in leaving out statistics against the best team in the world, as opposed to leaving out statistics from poor teams. You're picking and choosing your statistics. First it was since Jan 2003 with Fleming opening against McGrath omitted, and now it's the last 20 Tests. Strangely enough, your shorter time period and picky selections have Fleming averaging 50+. Over a longer period, it converges closer to his equally disappointing career average.

Of course you absolutely have to take into account recent form. That's why Vincent will play the Tests against Zimbabwe. That's why McMillan is playing in England.

I'm still yet to see any valid argument against Fleming playing. "Out of form" "Not as good as he can be" both have no backing to them. Fleming is in form and I feel that he's doing brilliantly lately, with the sole exception of opening against McGrath. In any other game, in recent form and times, he has played wonderfully. Look at his county season - lovely stuff, one of the top batsmen this season, averaging 70.5 with a faster-than-a-run-a-ball double century to his name.

Please, tell me where it is that Stephen Fleming has been lacking lately. Because I just don't see where in the world this is coming from.

 

[AndrewM]

I'm still yet to see any valid argument against Fleming playing. "Out of form" "Not as good as he can be" both have no backing to them. Fleming is in form and I feel that he's doing brilliantly lately, with the sole exception of opening against McGrath. In any other game, in recent form and times, he has played wonderfully. Look at his county season - lovely stuff, one of the top batsmen this season, averaging 70.5 with a faster-than-a-run-a-ball double century to his name.

Please, tell me where it is that Stephen Fleming has been lacking lately. Because I just don't see where in the world this is coming from.

Fleming will play. The fact that people are discussing the idea that he won't for any reason is just beyond me/laughable. Case closed.

One of the world's leading skippers? Most experienced batsman in current test side/ever (in terms of tests played)? Arguably in the best form of his life (forget McGrath), backed up by Loony Bob's county stats.

I obviously am missing something.

Clarification would be excellent. And i don't mean the "he's back to his old inconsistent ways" lunacy.

Very interesting comment though about the middle order. We have a plethora of talent there which makes for some good selection headaches, which can only be positive for the future of the test side.

In fact, our talent pool right at this moment must be the deepest for a long time. We have too many batsmen and bowlers to pick and choose from, rather than pluging holes and selecting bits and pieces players.

We should almost acknowledge and saviour the current dilemma the selectors currently face. How rare!

 

[aussie]

We have a plethora of talent there which makes for some good selection headaches, which can only be positive for the future of the test side.

Brilliant post mate, well said

 

[Macka]

I'm still yet to see any valid argument against Fleming playing. "Out of form" "Not as good as he can be" both have no backing to them. Fleming is in form and I feel that he's doing brilliantly lately, with the sole exception of opening against McGrath. In any other game, in recent form and times, he has played wonderfully. Look at his county season - lovely stuff, one of the top batsmen this season, averaging 70.5 with a faster-than-a-run-a-ball double century to his name.

Please, tell me where it is that Stephen Fleming has been lacking lately. Because I just don't see where in the world this is coming from.

I'm not talking county matches here. He does have a much better domestic career. I'll keep this simple: Do you believe Fleming's average of 37-odd over the last 20 Tests shows his talent and ability? Backing? Do you want statistics? Or can you not see that Fleming is capable of so much more than a very mediocre average. Eight Test centuries in 90-odd Tests is very, very poor from a top-order player.

Just for the record, I believe Fleming should be in the team; I just do not think he has played consistantly enough throughout his career.

 

[Lyell_Chris]

If flem wasn't captain he may not have been given as many chances in the past when he was having a bad run, he would be in atm though, btw would vettori or oram be a better captain, I think vettori because orams got enough on his hands as a batter and maybe 3rd seamer in the future

 

[sportychic33]

Cricket: Black Caps' arrival in Namibia delayed


29.07.05 12.40pm


The Black Caps could be struggling to field a full team in their two one-day cricket matches against Namibia this weekend.

Five UK-based players were late arriving in Namibia after being stranded in South Africa due to a three-day national strike which has caused flight delays.

Black Caps manager Lindsay Crocker told Radio Sport they had nine squad members for the first warm-up match tomorrow.

The team are likely to draw on local players if the remaining squad members fail to arrive on time, but Crocker said they also had six management personnel to call on if needed.

Besides coach John Bracewell, a former New Zealand international, Crocker has also played first-class cricket.

The Black Caps are due to arrive in Harare on Wednesday for their controversial two-test series against Zimbabwe starting next week.

The Black Caps will also compete in one-day tri-series with the hosts and India later next month.

Great start to an already dubious tour. would be funny to see braces play.

 

[Somerset]

Great start to an already dubious tour. would be funny to see braces play.

Yeah fantastic way to kick it off - at least it should guarantee all those players who haven't had the experience of playing cricket in England a part in the warm-up match though.

 

[shaka]

Aren't SAA on strike, thats the reason I think for this current problem. I'd love to see Snedden play, if available, lol

 

[Loony BoB]

Oh, God, I would LOVE to see the management play a game. That would be fantastic.

If they draw on local players, do the locals get a Cricinfo profile saying they've played for New Zealand? :S

 

[Sir Redman]

I posted my team a month or so ago on the Black Caps generic thread and can't be stuffed going through all the justifications and everything again. so I'll just say that if it comes down to a straight pick between Astle and Styris I would take Astle any day of the week.

 

[Loony BoB]

Does anyone know if there will be any kind of coverage of the NZ vs. Namibia games? Would love to see some if this whole Bracewell/Crocker thing goes ahead.

 

[AndrewM]

Does anyone know if there will be any kind of coverage of the NZ vs. Namibia games? Would love to see some if this whole Bracewell/Crocker thing goes ahead.

I wouldn't think so mate. Just the tests and one-dayers against Zimbabwe/India. But Sky have confirmed they will screen the tour.

 

[Somerset]

Does anyone know if there will be any kind of coverage of the NZ vs. Namibia games? Would love to see some if this whole Bracewell/Crocker thing goes ahead.

I wouldn't think there would be any coverage, even for the locals TBH - at least we get coverage of the Zimbabwe test matches and the ODI series.

 

[Lyell_Chris]

lol at braces n crocker

my uncle and his mates r jet boating in afica atm mayb they could be the sub fielders, there near zimbabwe too I think, on the border

 

[Right arm fast]

I wouldn't think so mate. Just the tests and one-dayers against Zimbabwe/India. But Sky have confirmed they will screen the tour.

what time (NZL) will the games be played??

 

[sportychic33]

don't worry crisis averted. the 6 english based players arrived in namibia.

 

[Right arm fast]

phew that game would have been interesting although im picking the black caps still would have won

 

[AndrewM]

what time (NZL) will the games be played??

I'm really not sure mate. I can't remember what time the games were on last time. But i'm sure we will see an ad for the tour soon enough on Sky. I will post the news as soon as it becomes available.