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**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
To be successful at this level for a legspinner, one needs to have plenty of variations- googly, flipper (mandatory) etc; if Nethula gets selected, this will be a big test of his skills. A legspinner bowling in a test match is always exciting to watch so looking forward
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Well yeah, but you were saying that the volume of variation is important too, which I disagree with. The one that turns and the one that doesn't is all that's needed.
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
If you're a supremely accurate leggie, then there isn't much need for anything else. History kind of tells us that an consistent leg spinner (Warne, Kumble, O'Reilly) doesn't come around that often, so batsman won't be as worried playing a straight-one from a bowler like Tahir, who's a bit all over the place and doesn't really rip it.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Guess work. Pure and simple.

Flem's right, career averages don't mean a tremendous amount as I've tried to explain previously. We picked him averaging a fair bit less. And we've gone down the off-spin route, his name is Jeetan Patel and he didn't produce enough to demand re-selection. Interestingly he's fifth on the CC Div 1 wicket taking list, and is scoring a weight of runs as well.
That's what happens when you put him into a good side. :ph34r:
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Oh FFS, Flynn now out too. Again, some of you may view this as not all bad though I've been really expecting a lot from Flynn this time around. Hopefully they shift McCullum up to open but I suspect instead Watling will end up doing it, which I do not like.

Looks like Brownlie safe for now.
 
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Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I know New Zealand's board doesn't exactly have a lot of money but these injuries are making a mockery of the paper thin squad. New Zealand really should have had a regular off-spin option in their squad as well as better cover. West Indies have so many left hand bats.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Nethula almost definitely playing now despite struggling get to grips with the Duke...crikey. Tbf he has had accounted for Sam Wells, Jeet Raval and Corey Anderson as far as lefties go. :p
Tarun Nethula, 2011/12 Wickets - YouTube

Straw Man's right I think, even in a must-win game you struggle to to see them going with Bracewell at 7 and Wagner 8, so Watling and van Wyk will both feature in the XI.
 

CharlesLara

U19 12th Man
To be successful at this level for a legspinner, one needs to have plenty of variations- googly, flipper (mandatory) etc; if Nethula gets selected, this will be a big test of his skills. A legspinner bowling in a test match is always exciting to watch so looking forward
Disagree. The leg spinner's stock ball is the key to being successful. The latter half of Warnes career is a testament to that (relying solely on a leg spinner and slider). Without a consistently reliable stock ball you have nothing to fall back on when the going gets tough, and we all know when it comes to leg spinners it can be a very lonely place when that inevitable soul searching period approaches. Can't rely on variations, because its the lead up to that variation that makes or breaks it.

Also, the flipper being mandatory? How many leg spinners actually successfully use the flipper consistently as a threat, off the top I can only think of Benaud and Warne (who made it famous).

Ask any leg spinner how they would like to take wickets and its the one that turns enough to either take the edge or beat the bat and bowl them.
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
Disagree. The leg spinner's stock ball is the key to being successful. The latter half of Warnes career is a testament to that (relying solely on a leg spinner and slider). Without a consistently reliable stock ball you have nothing to fall back on when the going gets tough, and we all know when it comes to leg spinners it can be a very lonely place when that inevitable soul searching period approaches. Can't rely on variations, because its the lead up to that variation that makes or breaks it.

Also, the flipper being mandatory? How many leg spinners actually successfully use the flipper consistently as a threat, off the top I can only think of Benaud and Warne (who made it famous).

Ask any leg spinner how they would like to take wickets and its the one that turns enough to either take the edge or beat the bat and bowl them.
As mentioned earlier, bowler needs to be very accurate if doesn't have variations in armoury; Warne's injury restricted him to use some variations perfectly in later years but he had near bull's eye accuracy; don't think any young (in terms of exposure) leggie new into the scene can possess that sort of skill to make up for; also variations are not only used to take wickets, variations are also needed to set batsman up; to keep batsman guessing and make them look at bowler's releasing point even more closely to know what's coming next. To quote this:

It (flipper) was reputedly invented by the Australian leg-spinner Clarrie Grimmett. Grimmett became so enamoured with the delivery that at times he bowled it almost as frequently as his stock leg break. The great Don Bradman once remarked to Grimmett that he must have forgotten how to bowl a leg break, as he bowled so many flippers. Ironically, Bradman was bowled shortly thereafter at a memorial match by Grimmett, who produced a perfectly pitched stock ball that turned just enough to remove Bradman's off bail. "There y'are Don, I told you I could bowl a leg break" was Grimmett's alleged response.
 
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Mike5181

International Captain
Taylor, Boult, Bracewell, Brownlie, Guptill, McCullum, Southee, van Wyk, Wagner, Watling and Williamson.

No Martin, Vettori or Nethula.
 

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