**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

[Hurricane]

Unfortunately, those kinds of jinx threads only work if you genuinely believe what you're writting. If we want a Martin is terrible thread to have any chance of succeeding, we need someone like Howsie to start it.

LOL true enough - I think Flem might have made the odd post calling him out recently.

 

[Hurricane]

Black caps need a win here to retain some faith in our summer sport.

I am not going to analyse the game a) because I didn't watch much b) because everything has been said.

Vettori has picked a terrible time to not perform with the bat. He scores 40 runs in each inning and we would have drawn that test. Why has he chosen to become crap.

Why couldn't Dean Brownlie have turned out to be a player who averaged 35?

Why why why.

Anyways - onwards and upwards.

 

[Flem274*]

Brownlie will probably come right against sides without good spinners.

I saw no play, so can't comment much. Vettori needs runs though.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Unfortunately, those kinds of jinx threads only work if you genuinely believe what you're writting. If we want a Martin is terrible thread to have any chance of succeeding, we need someone like Howsie to start it.

Martin should have been put down about 18 months ago, instead of that he's become one of the first names on the team sheet. All this stuff they'll trumpet out when he *finally* retires about him being a great servant to NZ cricket. But he's doing more harm than good. New Zealand have a few options who can deliver at least as 'well' as Martin is doing with the ball. Naturally they'll be a lot younger and less useless with the bat and in the field. I don't really see the point in persisting with someone like Martin when you're losing anyway. You're getting poor results and you're not learning anything.

The Test just gone people will gloss over his performance because they just accept his batting and so on. But he contributed to the defeat. He leaked runs at a great pace when the game was still in the balance and his batting will always hurt New Zealand, whether it is himself that gets out or the other guy who gets dismissed slogging at everything.

 

[straw man]

Looks like another entry into the hall of NZ mediocrity. Even though Windies were undoubtedly the better team I would have thought we could have batted out a draw from that position. So many disappointments in that performance - I don't know where to start.

I see the criticism of Martin and Vettori in this thread - I think the Vettori criticism is more valid - if he's batting at 8, not scoring runs and just bowling like he has for at least the last five years, what's the point? He's chosen a terrible time to lose form with the bat. And the assumption I'd made that patient accurate bowling (a la Vettori, but also others) would be enough against most of the West Indies batsmen has also been shown to be wrong. Just proves again that Vettori should be in the side for his batting. I don't think he wants to think of himself as a batsman though and we've sure been missing those runs lately.

For the next match I'd make Brownlie redundant (not dropped - his position is no longer required) and replace with a bowler. We want to give ourselves some chance of winning and that needs more firepower. Boult, if fit, though if not I will spend the next week visualising Southee bowling that outswinger to get Gayle in one of the ODIs. Almost certainly a mirage though.

 

[Flem274*]

If Martin can't be dropped (regardless of whether he deserves it right now - I'm happy for him to get more opportunities but obvz if he continues with 2/100 type figures then he will need to make way for Boult) then Vettori isn't going anywhere, ever.

 

[straw man]

I don't want to drop him, I just want him to score some ****ing runs.

 

[Flem274*]

Same.

 

[Hurricane]

<Insert quote here of Flem saying Vettori should open>

 

[Flem274*]

Vettori should open.

 

[Bahnz]

Vettori should open.

If he started bowling medium fasts, he'd probably be more effective. At least his height might generate a bit of bounce.

 

[Spark]

Interesting that yet another Test match sees top order building a really good platform, but a middling or inadequate sort of score being made because of middle order ****ups. Seems to be a pattern of late in world cricket.

 

[Bahnz]

Martin should have been put down about 18 months ago, instead of that he's become one of the first names on the team sheet.

Reckon this is a bit harsh. Martin was excellent against Australia, and his historical success against them gave reason to believe he'd be effective against SA. But, as much as I love the greyhound, I do think he should've called it a day at the conclusion of last summer.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I would like to see Wagner getting more chances. His most dangerous deliveries are the ones that go across RH and those fuller length ones that goes into LH; he hit into the pads quite many times and those were good shouts although the balls were missing/clipping leg stump. He could be a dangerous prospect if he gets conditions under favour

 

[Jager]

I think it's strange people are suddenly saying he's out of form - it's only one test in. True poor form is a Marsh or Edwards-style series. Got to give people a bit of leeway with the bat. One test match isn't enough to judge

 

[Jager]

That being said, Vettori's bowling was not even remotely threatening, so something needs to click soon.

 

[NasserFan207]

Well this is pretty much the lowest low we've hit since 1994.

We'll win the next test.

Not sure how this could be the case, WI at home were always clear favourites against NZ. Particularly with Gayle in the side.

 

[Migara]

Open the bowling with Vettori. FFS, Gayle was getting out to Dilshan when he opened bowling.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

The thing with Vettori opening the bowling is that he's to contend with two left handers, Gayle and Powell; not too sure how much effective will be SLA against LH with new ball. Vettori can come in later with old ball and rather have Williamson opening the bowling with short leg, slip and long off against Gayle. Williamson's bowling is pretty similar to Dilshan as well.

 

[Migara]

The thing with Vettori opening the bowling is that he's to contend with two left handers, Gayle and Powell; not too sure how much effective will be SLA against LH with new ball. Vettori can come in later with old ball and rather have Williamson opening the bowling with short leg, slip and long off against Gayle. Williamson's bowling is pretty similar to Dilshan as well.

Vettori will be useful because he doesn't spin it much, and the straight ball will be the wicket taker. Against Dilshan Gayle was having trouble particularly with the slider and was cleaned up by an off break later. I think Dilshan knows better about bowling than Williamson though. even for a part timer Dilshan is quite attacking spinner.