I think it's a stretch to say Oram is in for his bowling only. He batted at seven in the first ODI, and was at No.3 v Zimbabwe last summer. He's a capable player - 32 in the first ODI, scores in both the T20s. Yes he'd probably be selected solely on his bowling at the moment, but he needs to contribute. That was an awful innings. As was the shot he played in the previous match.
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**Official** New Zealand in West Indies
- Thread starter James
- Start date
BeeGee
International Captain
Well done. Contradicted yourself in the space of four sentences.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Would have expected Guptill and KW to be at least a little better. Yeah those numbers are bad.
Econ rates for bowlers?
No I didn't. I said he would probably be selected for his bowling alone. I didn't say he was. He isn't. If he was a complete mug with the bat - which he isn't - he'd still be getting picked as his work with the ball has been pretty good.
Flem274*
123/5
Hm, what makes me wonder about players like Oram and Mills (
) though is they won't be around for the next world cup.
Our ODI batting depth is a joke, and our bowling depth appears to be better at the long format, but should we be building a side for 2015? I find it hard to believe the selection of Latham, despite gunning it last season, isn't with 2015 in mind.
) though is they won't be around for the next world cup.Our ODI batting depth is a joke, and our bowling depth appears to be better at the long format, but should we be building a side for 2015? I find it hard to believe the selection of Latham, despite gunning it last season, isn't with 2015 in mind.
BeeGee
International Captain
You did it again.
Mate.
He *probably* (hypothetic asterisk) would be selected solely for his bowling. As in if he was a bunny, his bowling would *probably* (hypothetic asterisk) be enough to get him in the side. If he became Chris Martin with the bat overnight, he would *probably* (hypothetic asterisk) be selected.
But at the moment, he is selected to make runs as well. To be a finisher. To bat. Jacob Oram is NOT selected solely as a batsman at present. We should expect runs out of him. That was his original trade as a cricketer. The balance of our side needs him contributing.
BeeGee
International Captain
Okay, understood.
It does bring us back to the crux of the matter. The reason the NZ team need Oram to contribute with the bat is because our top order batting is so woeful.
Guys like Guptill, B McCullum and Williamson have the talent to play at this level, but they just don't perform often enough against good opposition. We're always four wickets down by the time we get half way through the innings.
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BackFootPunch
International 12th Man
Not as horrible as 30 off 60 sounds. Hit some decent shots straight to fielders and often didn't manage to turn the strike over until the middle of the over which was a bit of an issue. Certainly looked alright against the pace of Best though I thought and basically did what was required of him.
He showed why he's worth sticking with.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Thinking ahead to the tests, I favour the following side.
McCullum
Guptill (ugh)
Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie
Vettori
van Wyk
Bracewell
Wagner
Southee
Martin
However, if the pitch looks likely to be a road, I'd favour including Flynn ahead of Southee. Don't see the point of including Nethula, as he's really not good enough. As we learnt from the Jeets experiment, even when the pitches suit spin, picking two spinners is pointless if one of them is just cannon fodder. And as I say that, Jeets continues to dominate for Warwickshire in the CC.
McCullum
Guptill (ugh)
Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie
Vettori
van Wyk
Bracewell
Wagner
Southee
Martin
However, if the pitch looks likely to be a road, I'd favour including Flynn ahead of Southee. Don't see the point of including Nethula, as he's really not good enough. As we learnt from the Jeets experiment, even when the pitches suit spin, picking two spinners is pointless if one of them is just cannon fodder. And as I say that, Jeets continues to dominate for Warwickshire in the CC.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
I'm not, I'm judging him on his FC record (which even in recent seasons, has been fairly average) and his propensity to bowl full tosses and half trackers. I've also more or less come to the belief that because New Zealand batsmen are so rubbish at playing wrist spin, a kiwi leggie would really have to have an outstanding (i.e. sub 25) average in the plunket shield before you could start to be optimistic about their chances at the next level.
If he does play, I hope he at least gets a chance on a decent pitch. I honestly believe that Jeets' career was badly affected by continually getting picked on flat trackers where only a Warne/Murali type would be effective.
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BackFootPunch
International 12th Man
Nethula's problem is that he's neither extraordinarily consistent nor a big turner of the ball. He needs one of the two at least.
Having said that, he's possibly more likely to create chances than a bowler like Vettori but against the WI line up they're every chance of self-destructing on their own, regardless of the bowler.
My team: McCullum Guptill Williamson Taylor Flynn Brownlie Vettori van Wyk Bracewell Wagner Martin
I'm not going to get carried away with Southee's ODI form. They didn't pick him for the Tests for a reason. Unless he swings it round corners at heat in the warm-up game, and basically says you have to pick me, no go.
Same with Nethula.
I was a big advocate of the extra bowler in our home summer v South Africa but I'd go differently in Caribbean conditions. Let's bore the b*stards out. They're not of the same class as the Proteas, Chanderpaul excepted. They'l get themselves out if given the opportunity.
I'm not going to get carried away with Southee's ODI form. They didn't pick him for the Tests for a reason. Unless he swings it round corners at heat in the warm-up game, and basically says you have to pick me, no go.
Same with Nethula.
I was a big advocate of the extra bowler in our home summer v South Africa but I'd go differently in Caribbean conditions. Let's bore the b*stards out. They're not of the same class as the Proteas, Chanderpaul excepted. They'l get themselves out if given the opportunity.
BackFootPunch
International 12th Man
Pretty sure Southee has proved, definitively, that he's incapable of doing those things simultaneously and is a far worse bowler when he tries to do so. Trying to bowl quicker has been one of his main problems over the last couple of years.
Like the look of your team though. If Watling is fully fit would you still play van Wyk over him?
Mike5181
International Captain
Yeah, I agree. That's the team I'd go with as well.
Mike5181
International Captain
I wouldn't personally. Van Wyk was good with the gloves against South Africa + averaged 25 against world class bowlers in Steyn, Philander and an in-form Morne Morkel. That + his recent First-Class performances have been as good as anyone. Ultimately, it's irrelevant because he's not there though. If Van Wyk plays badly, Watling will be there to replace him. If he plays well then maybe someone like Guptill will be under pressure instead.
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Unfortunately you're right there. It would interest me if Southee went from being out of the Test squad to making the XI ahead of bowlers picked ahead of him - ie all of them (Martin Bracewell Wagner and Boult.
If fully fit, absolutely I would play Watling. Golf clap to van Wyk on his fighting 20s against SA but Watling was the man selected ahead of him before that, scored an unbeaten 100 v Zimbabwe, and has now scored runs in the ODIs.
