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***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014
- Thread starter Hurricane
- Start date
BackFootPunch
International 12th Man
No Darren Sammy? He was one of the few guys who came out of the NZ tour with any respect, I thought. I've never understood why so many West Indies fans don't want him anywhere near the side.
Beamer
International Vice-Captain
He ruins the balance of our side and makes it impossible to play two spinners. He isn't good enough with the ball to be in the xi and doesn't score enough runs to play as a batsman. Just because he bowled better than Best and Gabriel doesn't mean he deserves a place in the side.
I don't mind having him in Test match squads or touring parties as he is a useful utility man and can be a handful on pitches which nibble about a bit. But he should certainly not be a fixture in the side unless it is a Limited Overs match.
BackFootPunch
International 12th Man
Yeah I can see your point there. I guess having Bravo as well as him would help the situation a bit - it didn't really work having Deonarine as your part time fifth option when you were out here.
To be honest, I'd still be happy with Sammy at 8 and two spinners as long as it was someone like Roach as the other seamer.
Beamer
International Vice-Captain
I personally think we have some pretty talented bowlers in the region and can do way better than Sammy but we will see what they come up with. If he is still captain of the Test side I will seriously consider boycotting the series as will a large number of fans in the West Indies. I just can't see it happening though, it was just so obvious on the last two tours, even when he had Best and Gabriel to make his bowling look respectable in New Zealand. On the tour of India he basically hid himself for most of the tests and when he did finally come on he was dealt with easily.
It will be fascinating to see which bowling combination they go with. I'll wait to the second semi-final finishes before giving my opinion on what the attack should be but there have been some superb performances today.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah it's just so hard to know what the right combination for the West Indies is. Only Roach and Narine really demand selection. We know that Sammy is not really a third seamer, but there's noone else that's tested and proven in that role, barring Rampaul and he's too fat to play.
To be honest, I'd just go for the Hail Mary and throw Taylor back in there. I was also a bit of a fan of Fidel Edwards in that I thought he was an unlucky bowler, but seeing as we haven't heard much from WW and Beamer about him he must've gone off the boil.
And then yeah, a second spinner.
To be honest, I'd just go for the Hail Mary and throw Taylor back in there. I was also a bit of a fan of Fidel Edwards in that I thought he was an unlucky bowler, but seeing as we haven't heard much from WW and Beamer about him he must've gone off the boil.
And then yeah, a second spinner.
Beamer
International Vice-Captain
Ok, so I've decided what my bowling attack would be if I had to select it now (we still have our FC final between Windward Islands and Jamaica left). I'm assuming the following:
- Kemar Roach won't be ready, though I heard he has been training with Otis and will be playing club cricket in Barbados from next week
- Shane Shillingford is still getting used to his new approved action and is therefore not ready for a return to action. Apparently his new action is more side on and adjusting to this has given him some injury problems.
Jason Holder
Jerome Taylor
Devendra Bishoo
Sunil Narine
Reserve Pacer = Kenroy Peters
We need a combination of experience and youth, hence I'd bring back JT to partner Jason Holder with the new ball. Both of those guys move the ball in the air and off the seam which was something we saw practically nothing of in New Zealand until the ODI series. Kenroy Peters might be a new and surprising name, but he has been absolutely sensational this year and has a brilliant career record. He is a left arm medium fast bowler and so has been ignored for years in favour of pace like fiyah bowlers. I watched quite a bit of his bowling over the weekend and he swings the new and old ball appreciably with superb control. I think he'd be an excellent choice to replace the 2nd spinner at the QPO which assists the pacers. Devendra Bishoo would be my 2nd spinner as he has had some success at international level already, is in supreme form and turns the ball away from the right handers, offering variety.
I realise those are rather drastic changes but lets face it they are needed. If Roach is fit he comes in for either Holder or JT.
- Kemar Roach won't be ready, though I heard he has been training with Otis and will be playing club cricket in Barbados from next week
- Shane Shillingford is still getting used to his new approved action and is therefore not ready for a return to action. Apparently his new action is more side on and adjusting to this has given him some injury problems.
Jason Holder
Jerome Taylor
Devendra Bishoo
Sunil Narine
Reserve Pacer = Kenroy Peters
We need a combination of experience and youth, hence I'd bring back JT to partner Jason Holder with the new ball. Both of those guys move the ball in the air and off the seam which was something we saw practically nothing of in New Zealand until the ODI series. Kenroy Peters might be a new and surprising name, but he has been absolutely sensational this year and has a brilliant career record. He is a left arm medium fast bowler and so has been ignored for years in favour of pace like fiyah bowlers. I watched quite a bit of his bowling over the weekend and he swings the new and old ball appreciably with superb control. I think he'd be an excellent choice to replace the 2nd spinner at the QPO which assists the pacers. Devendra Bishoo would be my 2nd spinner as he has had some success at international level already, is in supreme form and turns the ball away from the right handers, offering variety.
I realise those are rather drastic changes but lets face it they are needed. If Roach is fit he comes in for either Holder or JT.
Beamer
International Vice-Captain
Agreed in regards to JT,especially if he performs well in our FC final later this week. As for Fidel, he's lost a yard of pace but still has the mentality of the express pacer. I think he'd go for too many runs at test level unfortunately so his time may well be up.
Cummins has been very badly treated by Barbados this year and didn't really get a chance to back up last years success because the spinners took all the wickets. In the semi-final he bowled all of 8 overs.
Jason Holder deserves an opportunity as long as the selectors feel he has enough bowling under his belt. Him sitting on the sidelines at the IPL instead of bowling in our FC cricket won't help but I would still pick him.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I really, really want Roach to be fit as he's the only proven seamer who picks himself.
I think I'd probably pick the same bowling lineup as Beamer, but Roach would be in for Taylor, who'd be reserve pacer. Question marks over Bishoo at Test level.
Dwayne Bravo has to play at 6, and will really need to up his game. I'm not sure that he's capable of it, but he doesn't really have much competition from Deonarine. I suppose it can be argued that Deonarine will be more suited to Windies conditions, but they'll be playing two spinners anyway.
I think I'd probably pick the same bowling lineup as Beamer, but Roach would be in for Taylor, who'd be reserve pacer. Question marks over Bishoo at Test level.
Dwayne Bravo has to play at 6, and will really need to up his game. I'm not sure that he's capable of it, but he doesn't really have much competition from Deonarine. I suppose it can be argued that Deonarine will be more suited to Windies conditions, but they'll be playing two spinners anyway.
Beamer
International Vice-Captain
Bishoo was the ICC's emerging player of the year in 2012 I believe, his test record is actually pretty good. He just lost the plot a bit and started to bowl too many long hops and was therefore unceremoniously dumped when Shilly and Narine emerged, I would say he is twice the bowler Ish Sodhi is as he turns his leg spinners far more and has a decent flipper. I genuinely think that, I'm not just trying to wind you all up. Of course Sodhi can actually bat more than a bit which helps his cause but as a bowler I know which one of them I'd choose 10 times out of 10. Therefore I think if he's on form (13 wickets against T & T says he is) he'd be a very useful 2nd spinner.
As for Deo, he averaged 10 in this years FC competition and hardly took any wickets. I think he is finished unfortunately. Also, Dwayne Bravo has badly injured his shoulder at the IPL and will be out for 5/6 weeks, meaning he'll be too short of cricket to make the test team IMHO. I think they should either go with a proper batsman at 6 and avoid the bits and pieces stuff we've been putting up with or they should try out Jonathon Carter, who struck a brilliant century the other day and can bowl brisk medium pace.
As I said earlier in the thread, it's not going to be easy for the selectors this season.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Sounds like Craig and Sodhi are both going to play:
Cricket: Next step for NZ is to perform away from home | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
These days, the strip in the middle has little on it which resembles grass, and the Black Caps can expect a barrage of spin rather than bumpers.
''It is quite foreign in terms of what we are used to,'' Hesson said.
''But we know what we are going to confront.''
He believes his side is better equipped to cope than the team which fronted two years ago.
''Our average against spin during the last two years at home has been 54. We played it well at home but away from home it is closer to 30, so clearly there is a big discrepancy.''
It is more bounce than turn which has tended to catch the batsmen out.
''We've got players who are experienced enough to be able to adapt. We've also got one or two who it will be a big challenge for.''
The batting order is settled, with one exception. Cantabrian Tom Latham has been brought into the squad to challenge Hamish Rutherford and Peter Fulton, and Hesson described the opening berths as ''contestable''.
''We have three openers vying for two spots. We have two warm-up games and we are very open in our thinking around who the openers are going to be. Whoever adapts to the conditions the quickest is likely to get the first opportunity.''
The surfaces the Black Caps are likely to strike will alter the mix of the side.
Hesson said a combination of two seamers, two spinners and an all-rounder would give his side the best prospect of success.
That means Otago offspinner Mark Craig will almost certainly play.
He was not wanted, initially. Daniel Vettori was ruled out because he had not got his bowling load up to the required standard, and Jeetan Patel declined a spot in the side, electing to remain with his county side.
''Mark has very much been on our radar as a longer-form bowler. We think he gets good players out through beating them in the air and off the wicket.
''He is probably one of the biggest spinners of the ball in New Zealand for a finger spinner. With the [number of] left-hand batsmen the West Indies will have, his offspin is a factor for us.''
Perhaps the only other selection dilemma is which all-rounder will get the nod. Corey Anderson and Jimmy Neesham both mount a compelling case for inclusion.
Anderson is perhaps a more savvy bowler who relies on swing, change-ups and off-cutters, whereas Neesham is quicker and is more aggressive.
Batting-wise, they both have a test hundred to their name and there is little to separate them.
''It is a nice problem to have. Corey has the front running but James is certainly pushing.''
Cricket: Next step for NZ is to perform away from home | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
These days, the strip in the middle has little on it which resembles grass, and the Black Caps can expect a barrage of spin rather than bumpers.
''It is quite foreign in terms of what we are used to,'' Hesson said.
''But we know what we are going to confront.''
He believes his side is better equipped to cope than the team which fronted two years ago.
''Our average against spin during the last two years at home has been 54. We played it well at home but away from home it is closer to 30, so clearly there is a big discrepancy.''
It is more bounce than turn which has tended to catch the batsmen out.
''We've got players who are experienced enough to be able to adapt. We've also got one or two who it will be a big challenge for.''
The batting order is settled, with one exception. Cantabrian Tom Latham has been brought into the squad to challenge Hamish Rutherford and Peter Fulton, and Hesson described the opening berths as ''contestable''.
''We have three openers vying for two spots. We have two warm-up games and we are very open in our thinking around who the openers are going to be. Whoever adapts to the conditions the quickest is likely to get the first opportunity.''
The surfaces the Black Caps are likely to strike will alter the mix of the side.
Hesson said a combination of two seamers, two spinners and an all-rounder would give his side the best prospect of success.
That means Otago offspinner Mark Craig will almost certainly play.
He was not wanted, initially. Daniel Vettori was ruled out because he had not got his bowling load up to the required standard, and Jeetan Patel declined a spot in the side, electing to remain with his county side.
''Mark has very much been on our radar as a longer-form bowler. We think he gets good players out through beating them in the air and off the wicket.
''He is probably one of the biggest spinners of the ball in New Zealand for a finger spinner. With the [number of] left-hand batsmen the West Indies will have, his offspin is a factor for us.''
Perhaps the only other selection dilemma is which all-rounder will get the nod. Corey Anderson and Jimmy Neesham both mount a compelling case for inclusion.
Anderson is perhaps a more savvy bowler who relies on swing, change-ups and off-cutters, whereas Neesham is quicker and is more aggressive.
Batting-wise, they both have a test hundred to their name and there is little to separate them.
''It is a nice problem to have. Corey has the front running but James is certainly pushing.''
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
Using the vault filter in a Kippax way, eh.
I wonder if he's approached Ashton Turner and given him the same chat he gave Neil Wagner yet. Told him how anonymous and mundane his career as a specialist batsman in Perth will be, rather than being a Kiwi Test jock.