**Official** New Zealand in South Africa

[Prensel]

Guptil
McCullum
Williamson
Ryder
Taylor
Watling
Munro
Bracewell
Patel (Vetorri maybe, or pace)
Southee
Boult

Don't really like Flynn, still hasn't scored an 100..

 

[jcas0167]

Remember much else that he did?

My point was that after a debut like that, you don't need to do much else.

The main memory is him saying the Australian team were like a pack of dogs when he came into the ODI side when Astle retired in 2006/2007. He then played pretty well, got injured before the World Cup and went off to ICL.

Otherwise, after that excellent start he wasn't perhaps wasn't consistent enough opening and John Bracewell saw him as a middle order option. At the time with Fleming, Styris, Astle & McMillian that meant few opportunities. As an example, he had a pretty good home summer in 2005 against Australia and a top score of 224 against Sri Lanka, then after a 92 in Zimbabwe in 2005, didn't play in the test team again until in South Africa in November 2007. Then ICL.

Just checking his test innings on cricinfo and his performances opening were better than I remembered, including a century in India. But followed up with a bad home series against Pakistan in 2003 when Shoab Ahktar was in at his peak and was replaced by Papps.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

My point was that after a debut like that, you don't need to do much else.

The main memory is him saying the Australian team were like a pack of dogs when he came into the ODI side when Astle retired in 2006/2007. He then played pretty well, got injured before the World Cup and went off to ICL.

Otherwise, after that excellent start he wasn't perhaps wasn't consistent enough opening and John Bracewell saw him as a middle order option. At the time with Fleming, Styris, Astle & McMillian that meant few opportunities. As an example, he had a pretty good home summer in 2005 against Australia and a top score of 224 against Sri Lanka, then after a 92 in Zimbabwe in 2005, didn't play in the test team again until in South Africa in November 2007. Then ICL.

Just checking his test innings on cricinfo and his performances opening were better than I remembered, including a century in India. But followed up with a bad home series against Pakistan in 2003 when Shoab Ahktar was in at his peak and was replaced by Papps.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Heres something different
Watling
Ryder
Williamson
Taylor
Flynn
Brownlie
DeBorder
Bracewell
Wagner/Martin
Southee
Boult

Time for McCullum to go, has had 70 tests, he hasn't shown he can adapt to the game, and his average isn't that much greater that a few former Blackcaps who got far fewer tests.
Guptill needs to get back playing domestics and County where he can spend some time at the crease and work on his technique.

 

[Blain]

^^^, you cant drop McCullum and have Watling, Flynn and Brownlie there instead. Yes he is frustrating at times, but to put him below 3 players, lets get real here.

 

[NZTailender]

What's with all the Vincent love? He hasn't scored a FC ton in years and is in his mid 30s. Considering his technique is very reliant on his eye and he isn't scoring runs at his age, it suggests in the whites his decline is terminal. Fulton probably shouldn't be there but he should be there before Lou Vincent.

He hadn't played FC cricket before now in years tbf. So he's got to get back playing at a good level for 4+ day cricket.

If you look at his Test career, he was dropped on form once after the Pakistan 03 series, after scoring 8, 4, 0 and 4 in the 2 Tests. Although, in the two test innings prior to that in India he scored 67 & 106. He was recalled to the side to play a middle order role vs Australia and performed solidly enough to keep his spot and score a double tonne vs Sri Lanka. Then went to Zimbabwe as an opener and scored 13 & 92. When he got back to NZ he voiced his displeasure at being forced to open, after cracking it where he was used to batting pre-Tests (i.e. middle order). So, he was left out because of that and not on a question of form. Then he managed to get called up as an injury replacement in SA 2007, not disgracing himself in a first innings where Cumming's 48 was our best score, then had to open in the 2nd due to Cumming's injury. Unsurprisingly, he never got another game.

Basically, he should've played more than he should. I don't think because of those things does he deserve a shot now, but he could play again if he were to get back into form. For all his weaknesses he's shown he can handle Test cricket, and since he's opening for Auckland I guess he thinks thats where his best bet is.

I have the same problem remembering these things - looked up and it was around 09/10 he was back. One of his comments was:

nuff said

He's always been someone who's been frustrated by bull**** and mismanagement, which as we've seen this week, NZC produces a lot of. His comments there may be a bit off, but it shows someone who has a hunger to play international cricket at any cost, with a bit of a killer instinct which NZ players often sorely lack.

Lou

 

[SteveNZ]

Anyone who has watched Lou in the Plunket Shield this season wouldn't be tricked into thinking he has a hunger to play for NZ at any cost.

 

[NZTailender]

Anyone who has watched Lou in the Plunket Shield this season wouldn't be tricked into thinking he has a hunger to play for NZ at any cost.

I was speaking generally. He certainly had that hunger in the past, though. I haven't seen him bat live for a long time

 

[SteveNZ]

Oh during the Bracewell reign, certainly. Add it to the list of players with talent we couldn't afford to squander, but did.

 

[Flem274*]

He hadn't played FC cricket before now in years tbf. So he's got to get back playing at a good level for 4+ day cricket.

If you look at his Test career, he was dropped on form once after the Pakistan 03 series, after scoring 8, 4, 0 and 4 in the 2 Tests. Although, in the two test innings prior to that in India he scored 67 & 106. He was recalled to the side to play a middle order role vs Australia and performed solidly enough to keep his spot and score a double tonne vs Sri Lanka. Then went to Zimbabwe as an opener and scored 13 & 92. When he got back to NZ he voiced his displeasure at being forced to open, after cracking it where he was used to batting pre-Tests (i.e. middle order). So, he was left out because of that and not on a question of form. Then he managed to get called up as an injury replacement in SA 2007, not disgracing himself in a first innings where Cumming's 48 was our best score, then had to open in the 2nd due to Cumming's injury. Unsurprisingly, he never got another game.

Basically, he should've played more than he should. I don't think because of those things does he deserve a shot now, but he could play again if he were to get back into form. For all his weaknesses he's shown he can handle Test cricket, and since he's opening for Auckland I guess he thinks thats where his best bet is.



He's always been someone who's been frustrated by bull**** and mismanagement, which as we've seen this week, NZC produces a lot of. His comments there may be a bit off, but it shows someone who has a hunger to play international cricket at any cost, with a bit of a killer instinct which NZ players often sorely lack.

Lou

I don't disagree that he was screwed over. He should have been a regular during a large part of the last decade, or at least given a longer run. But right now, judging by his performances, we wouldn't be getting the old Vincent.

 

[hendrix]

I think I understand the Bruce Martin selection. He won't play, but in case Patel gets injured, they would prefer to have a spinner who's not going to get tonked around.

If Guptill hasn't got a score after the first test he'll be replaced by Fulton. I would prefer almost any opener in the country here, but at least I understand taking an extra opener.

Anderson, Neesham, McClenaghan et al. won't play in the t20s but it's a good idea to get them into the atmosphere where they can work with Bond and develop a bit of a thirst for it.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Anderson, Neesham, McClenaghan et al. won't play in the t20s but it's a good idea to get them into the atmosphere where they can work with Bond and develop a bit of a thirst for it.

I'd say most, if not all of them, will play some part. We're guaranteed a debutant in the first T20 as we've picked 5 uncapped players in the squad. Obviously de Boorder will be one but yeah wouldn't be surprised if we had another couple of those guys in the team to start with tbh.

 

[jcas0167]

Likely starting T20 lineup?

Brendon McCullum (c):
Guptill
Fulton
Franklin
Nicol
Munro
N McCullum
de Boorder
Bracewell
Boult
Milne

 

[SteveNZ]

I think I understand the Bruce Martin selection. He won't play, but in case Patel gets injured, they would prefer to have a spinner who's not going to get tonked around.

If Guptill hasn't got a score after the first test he'll be replaced by Fulton. I would prefer almost any opener in the country here, but at least I understand taking an extra opener.

Anderson, Neesham, McClenaghan et al. won't play in the t20s but it's a good idea to get them into the atmosphere where they can work with Bond and develop a bit of a thirst for it.

They'll all play - it's a policy they've had of doing so. Let's be honest, international T20 is a waste of time and if they can blood players through there, and get a bit more serious close to World competitions, it's the way to go.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

^^^, you cant drop McCullum and have Watling, Flynn and Brownlie there instead. Yes he is frustrating at times, but to put him below 3 players, lets get real here.

Yeah i realize it would never happen, this was just a thought. Realistically McCullum is a whole level above those three, but until McCullum plays like a Test Cricketer he shouldn't make the team, imo. Hopefully captaincy will fix this issue and he will learn to play patiently. Maybe batting down the order again would do him wonders, if there are runs on the board he shouldn't feel the need to be too aggressive, and if we collapse he should see the need for control.

 

[Prince EWS]

On Anderson, I remember Glenn Turner saying something years ago when interviewed at the Dilmah Tea Party about how he would've been picked for T20Is had it not been for injury. I'm thinking this was in 2009 or so, so it's no surprise to see him picked the minute he's fully fit. He'd done even less back then.

 

[Prince EWS]

December 2008 apparently:

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/1773931-post845.html

So we're talking four years ago. They've been keen for a very long time.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm surprised that Anderson can get it through at 135kms I somehow thought he was going to be a part timer around Franklin's pace.

 

[Prince EWS]

December 2008 apparently:

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/1773931-post845.html

So we're talking four years ago. They've been keen for a very long time.

It amuses me that by the time Anderson actually did end up in the Twenty20 squad, the bloke who I was telling about it back then got named in it as well!

 

[jcas0167]

I'm surprised that Anderson can get it through at 135kms I somehow thought he was going to be a part timer around Franklin's pace.

I'm pretty sure he was runner up to Boult in a fast bowling competition for school age cricketers. Not sure what impact his various injuries have had though. I think Neesham did well in one of those competitions too.