**Official** New Zealand in South Africa

[straw man]

Mike you are obsessed with Neil Broom

Agree with PEWs on Fulton. But oh well, it will just another train wreck in slow-mo.

 

[Prensel]

They should put Munro in the test squad.

He can replace Franklin.

 

[African Monkey]

Peter Fulton couldn't get his feet moving to Mohammad Asif and Umar Gul in our own conditions yet the selectors think he'll succeed against Steyn, Morkel and Philander on the worlds quickest pitches at 34 years old . FMD.

 

[NZTailender]

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

Vincent's Test average: 34.15
Williamson: 32.71
Sinclair: 32.05
Guptill: 32
Brownlie: 31.25
Watling: 30
Flynn: 28.22
Franklin 21.21

Of those going to SA only McCullum has a better average. If Vincent got into some FC form I don't think a recall would be unreasonable.

 

[jcas0167]

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

I was disgusted that they overlooked Lou Vincent when Australia were touring here in 2010. He was available after ICL and other issues, in form and instead they went with Peter Ingram to replace the injured Ryder.

Now, Ingram had done well in domestic cricket but it seemed risky to introduce him and his unique technique against the Aussies when they had a guy like Vincent ready to go. He is one of the big wasted talents over the past decade. Remember his hundred on debut (and fifty in second innings) opening at the WACA?

 

[hendrix]

Seriously, if you're going to pick a guy in his 30s then Sinclair and Vincent legitimately do have more claim than guys like Fulton.

The other big question is whether Guptill should be on this tour, given his poor form. If he wasn't going I could understand a comeback replacement. But I'd definitely opt for Vincent instead.

 

[Mike5181]

Vincent had other problems [depression, ICL] etc that didn't help either tbf. Looking at some of the players we have tried in the past, he should have played more test cricket. He never really delivered to the level his talent suggested he could though, and his first-class and OD records show that.

 

[Bahnz]

Remember his hundred on debut (and fifty in second innings) opening at the WACA?

Remember much else that he did?

 

[NZTailender]

Vincent had other problems [depression, ICL] etc that didn't help either tbf. Looking at some of the players we have tried in the past, he should have played more test cricket. He never really delivered to the level his talent suggested he could though, and his first-class and OD records show that.

There were various factors as to why Vincent hasn't played more. At the same time, he hasn't lived up to his potential, but not successfully becoming an opener and being a victim of the biomechanics school of batting also has played a part.

 

[straw man]

iirc after Vincent returned from the ICL he announced his intention to play for NZ again, scored some domestic T20 runs, then threw a public tanty when he wasn't picked straight away for the next NZ test series. This after making a big scene before storming off to the ICL in the first place.

He was hard done by pre-ICL a couple of times by the selectors but no way he deserves to have played tests since then.

 

[NZTailender]

iirc after Vincent returned from the ICL he announced his intention to play for NZ again, scored some domestic T20 runs, then threw a public tanty when he wasn't picked straight away for the next NZ test series. This after making a big scene before storming off to the ICL in the first place.

He was hard done by pre-ICL a couple of times by the selectors but no way he deserves to have played tests since then.

When abouts was that? I can't remember the timeframe. All the IPL/ICL stuff blends together.

 

[Immenso]

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

That's not the way I read it. In fact Sinclair was bigging up Aaron Redmond. Highlighting his current form andthat when he was dropped he had scored an 80 in that match.

 

[SeamUp]

Looks like the future is 2 test series between NZL and SAF. Just had a look at our next series in NZL and its 2 tests as well like this one. Unbelievable really.

 

[Flem274*]

What's with all the Vincent love? He hasn't scored a FC ton in years and is in his mid 30s. Considering his technique is very reliant on his eye and he isn't scoring runs at his age, it suggests in the whites his decline is terminal. Fulton probably shouldn't be there but he should be there before Lou Vincent.

A while ago I broke down Fulton's FC career and basically before the start of this season, the first half he was a beast and in the second half he averages mid 30s with a terribad conversion rate. Before this season, if you asked me about how good a player Fulton currently is in the Shield I would say his overall average massively flatters him.

Would've been an ideal time for Neil Broom to get a call up if they were looking for a player with a little bit of first-class experience, but he's not in great form so it's understandable they didn't go there.

Neil Broom is another who has fallen away over the previous 2 years or so. Has a ton to his name this season tbf but nothing else.

 

[Howsie]

Hopefully not. He's bloody average.

And Anderson has to be one of the most unexpected and undeserved selections I can remember. Bowled a total of 3 overs in domestic T20, averages 16 or something with the bat. Reward for staying fit for a few days in a row. I'd be surprised if he played Test cricket in the next 3 years - he's nowhere near it.

Colin de Grandhomme. 40 odd 20/20 games, terrible record, mid 20's, limited ability, there's one for you champ.

 

[Flem274*]

I raise you James "averaged 29 in FC when selected" Marshall

 

[SteveNZ]

Colin de Grandhomme. 40 odd 20/20 games, terrible record, mid 20's, limited ability, there's one for you champ.

But yet his batting average was about 10 higher than Anderson, strike rate way way better, had at least made a 50, less injury record, and bowled more overs. Oh and also played for NZ A and with a better FC record.

And..I said Anderson was one of the most undeserved. I didn't say he was the luckiest ever. Oh and if you can find it, I've said before that Colin didn't deserve to be picked but they saw ability (yes ability) and thought they could harness it. Same as they must be saying with Corey, coz it ain't on the pie chart.

Don't let the maroon blinkers hinder your vision friend.

 

[Halfpast_Yellow]

So what's the if-only dreamer's NZ test XI for this tour of SA?

Guptill
Flynn
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
McCullum
Watling (wk)
Bracewell
Patel/4th pacer
Southee
Boult

?

 

[straw man]

When abouts was that? I can't remember the timeframe. All the IPL/ICL stuff blends together.

I have the same problem remembering these things - looked up and it was around 09/10 he was back. One of his comments was:

I came back to New Zealand to prove that I wanted to play cricket again and to tell the selectors that I want to play for New Zealand again. And I guess the ball is in their court. And yeah, if all else fails I might play against the Black Caps at the next Twenty20 World Cup for England

nuff said

 

[hendrix]

So what's the if-only dreamer's NZ test XI for this tour of SA?

Guptill
Flynn
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
McCullum
Watling (wk)
Bracewell
Patel/4th pacer
Southee
Boult

?

IMO:
Guptill
McCullum
Flynn (left hander)
Taylor
Williamson
Ryder (left hander)
Watling (wk)
Bracewell
Southee
Boult
Patel

I want a left hander in the top 3 and I think Flynn has the technique for it.

Guptill and Ryder can bowl if needed. This would be a very good team.