***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[Loony BoB]

That sounds exactly like another SLA bowler in International Cricket...

Who, Ashley? Doesn't average under 30 in any country in the world. Having said that, Dan only averages under 30 in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe.

But I think if we were to go on about all of this then we may as well make a new thread or something, as it gets a bit tiring having [spinner] vs. [spinner] wars in every Aus / SL / Eng / NZ thread there is these days.

I agree that Dan is a batting allrounder, though. Selected for spin, but still a batting allrounder.

EDIT: And I definitely agree that Smith's captaincy was poor - I'm usually a decent enough fan of his but his bowler management in this test was just awful.

 

[Jono]

Brilliant innings' from Oram and Vettori. Got home from work just after 10, checked the score and choked - I believe the sound I made was something in the order of "geuuurghh" followed by a series of obscenities about Bracewell's selection policies and our top order.

I thought that Smith's captaincy was pretty average at times. He didn't mix his bowlers well at all, I think that he expected us to just fold for 100 and so kept guys like Steyn on when he was getting pummeled. When Boje came on he created a chance almost immediately when Oram tried to clear mid-on. A few balls later, Vettori got a big inside edge trying to play the same shot, and then Oram did the same. For some reason though, Smith then put mid-on back on the boundary which took the pressure right off.

Smith just shows a lack of faith in Boje, and bowls him at the wrong times. I hate it when he puts everyone out on the boundary and expects Boje to get a wicket that way. Its fricking annoying.

 

[JASON]

That was absolutely plumb. Harper is having a shocker out there.

For the umpteenth time !!

In fact I can't remember Harper not having a shocker lately.

 

[Ming]

His batting is of far more use to the side than his bowling at the moment.

Last 10 Tests (including this one but removing Zimbabwe):

470 runs @ 39.17, 24 wickets @ 44.

That's certainly not the returns of a specialist bowler.

Statistics don't determine if you are a batting or a bowling allrounder. At this stage in Tests, Vettori is being selected because he is a valuable spin bowler, and his batting is taken as a bonus.

 

[JASON]

Very few Teams in Test Cricket are capable of recovering from 5/45 to 327.

NZ batting lower order have shown they are capable batsman under dire circumstances of not only rescuing their Team but even building a small lead from the abyss they were in.

Great Work from Oram, Vettori.

Bracewell needs to really sort out NZ's opening combination and with Bond in the Team NZ could easily claim the No.2 spot from England , IMO.

 

[Goughy]

Bracewell needs to really sort out NZ's opening combination and with Bond in the Team NZ could easily claim the No.2 spot from England , IMO.

This series is for 5th and 6th spot. Its a long stretch to 2nd.
I recommend concentrating on winning this series before getting carried away.

 

[Blaze]

Lol Marc how many times are you going to bring Vettori's stats up? He is a better bowler than Giles end of story.

But I agree with you, his batting in Tests is more valuable than his bowling atm. In ODI's he is close to World XI honours due to his ability with the ball.

 

[Ming]

Would you say Vettori made the World Test XI then Marc?

My definition (up for debate of course) of a batting allrounder is that first of all you are an allrounder, but you would only get selected in the side based on batting alone, not bowling. I think it would be fair to say Vettori wouldn't get selected in the side based on his batting alone. However he would get selected on his bowling alone.

 

[_Ed_]

Smith just shows a lack of faith in Boje, and bowls him at the wrong times. I hate it when he puts everyone out on the boundary and expects Boje to get a wicket that way. Its fricking annoying.

That's true. He almost seems to rate his own bowling higher.

 

[shaka]

2 down

 

[Jono]

NZ on fire.

 

[Third Leg]

It's looking like a mine-field out there at the moment.

 

[Craig]

Smith just shows a lack of faith in Boje, and bowls him at the wrong times. I hate it when he puts everyone out on the boundary and expects Boje to get a wicket that way. Its fricking annoying.

So why do they pick him? As a token thing?

 

[Jono]

No idea. I reckon if Boje was a bunny with the bat he wouldn't get as many games as he does.

Anyway SA are technically 3/-2 at the moment. NZ well on top. They need to get Kallis again.

 

[Craig]

Although Prince, de Villiers, Boucher, Pollock, and Boje can all be the thorn in the NZ team.

And Prince is the guy I've been most impressed with when I first saw him I wrote him off as rubbish and had was of the belief he was in the team for reasons other then his cricketing ability. Thanbkfully he has proven me wrong.

 

[marc71178]

Statistics don't determine if you are a batting or a bowling allrounder. At this stage in Tests, Vettori is being selected because he is a valuable spin bowler, and his batting is taken as a bonus.

A bowler with his record over the last 4 years is not that useful.

 

[marc71178]

Would you say Vettori made the World Test XI then Marc?

Most definitely shouldn't have done when the likes of Kumble did not. You'd have to be extremely biased to claim he's anywhere near the class of Kumble.

However he would get selected on his bowling alone.

Is there really no other Kiwi bowler capable of averaging under 40?

 

[Macka]

A bowler with his record over the last 4 years is not that useful.

Vettori's bowling in Test matches does leave an awful lot to be desired. I agree with Marc.

 

[Loony BoB]

I'm quite sure there are no Kiwi spin bolwers capable of doing any better than Vettori, if that's what you're asking. He is our premiere spin bowler. Hey may average poorly against some countries, but hey, everyone has their bogey countries... Warne struggles in India and Bangladesh, Vettori in Pakistan and India, Kumble in England.

I agree he's not up to Kumble's class, but Kumble doesn't play half his matches in New Zealand. It's also notable that Kumble only averages under 30 when playing in Bangladesh, India and Zimbabwe, but we never hear you complaining about him doing well against the lower nations.

He's not the greatest in the world, no, and I don't claim him to be. But man, cut him some slack. His last four years may not be amazing but they're not horrible figuers either. Oh, and yes, he is better than Ashley Giles.

 

[Sir Redman]

South Africa played far too negatively in that first session IMO. The pitch was definately playing up, but they left an awful lot of balls that could have been hit to the boundary. McCullum, Oram and Vettori got us out of a hole by playing positively and I reckon that if they might as well make the most of their time in the middle before the pitch gets them out.