*Official* New Zealand in India Thread

[anzac]

oh happy days.....

the pundits may not be happy with the proceedings but I'm sure that the purist will find the subtleties of the competition in the middle of as much interest as anything to do with scores and run rates etc.

I'm starting to get tired of hearing the same excuses regarding pitch, and even blaming negative NZ tactics for the slow scoring by the Indian batsmen. Sure the pitch may not be ideal to produce a result or to even provide some level of entertainment, but after all this IS Test cricket & not the OD 'pajama party' we are talking about.

It would appear to me that some people have perhaps been spoiled with the recent prevelance of 3 or 4 day tests and 300+ runs scored in a day etc, but this is not always going to happen. This match has provided a scenario of when the going gets tough etc....and IMO there has only been 1 team in the running!

what an intriguing days cricket, less than 200 runs & 5 wickets falling - when you read this you could be forgiven for thinking it was the touring team innings you were looking at, but to realise that this is India's response to a first innings total of 600+ makes it all the more amazing!

IMO the Indian team has been completely outplayed by the Kiwis in every dept from Captaincy down, either that or this Indian team is very very poor. Despite some criticism of Fleming's tactics, one needs to keep in mind his available resources, the suitability of the team to the playing conditions, and the objective to be achieved.

I said a couple of days ago that there was the opportunity for the Kiwis to make a statement - regardless of the outcome on the last day I think they will have gone a long way to making it. Maybe it will not be so obvious to some when they look at the results - 2 drawn tests etc, but to the purist I'm sure that the message will not be lost on them.

 

[Anil]

I must admit I was a little skeptical about the kind of preparations the Kiwis made to counter the Indian team and the Indian conditions. I honestly didn't believe all that simulation training was any substitute for the real thing and thought India will dominate and take the series comfortably. I, like a lot of other doubters have been proved comprehensively wrong.

The Indians have been outplayed in all departments and are now following on 206 behind. They still might be able to save this test match if they keep their wits about them for 3/4 of a day, but whatever the result, it has been a huge moral victory for the New Zealanders. It only remains to be seen whether it will be an actual victory as well.

This series could either herald a going back to the dust bowls where even mediocre Indian spinners wreaked havoc on hapless tourists or better, more sporting tracks which will show both batting and bowling in good light(assuming of course that they have realised the futility of these dead tracks....). The BCCI must be panic stricken now at the spectre of possibly losing a home series to a team who the Indians were supposedly going to crush 2-0 and the former option will most likely be their knee-jerk reaction to this.

 

[Anil]

Sehwag gone....India 6 for 1 in the 4th over, is our team planning to show all us fans their favourite card trick(the house of cards one....)?

C'mon India, show some spine, fight out a draw atleast.....:!(

 

[Anil]

The wall under construction(Chopra) will have to give effective support to the "Great Wall of India" so that they can set up a good barricade against the suddenly menacing Kiwi attack.

Easier said than done, but they have it in them to do it...

 

[Tim]

Well after a long delay i've managed to fix my computer & just in time because NZ have India 12/2 at lunch.

Butler has a side-strain apparently, so he's been alot slower than his 1st innings speeds but I like what I see of him & I think along with Tuffey & Bond...NZ are going to give Pakistan & South Africa a tough work out this summer.

Come on NZ..this is such a big chance.

 

[Tim]

Anybody who judges a young quick on a flat wicket in India is an idiot.

Butler has made huge improvements from what i've seen & I think he's added about 5 or 6 km's.
I think bowling in India is going to serve him greatly ahead of the summer series in NZ.

 

[Tim]

Tuffey bowls Tendulkar! the big man has been superb in this test match, with his fielding & bowling.

 

[Craig]

This is my 1st time I have seen him bowl, although it hasnt been a case of not wanting to watch him, it is a case of Foxsports not showing his previous Tests.

He should be able to bowl at least 10kms quicker then what he can. His action allows it.

Good to see Tuffey continue his form the NZ-India series.

 

[esgallindeion]

So, it ends just the way most of us predicted.

And its really amazing the way India could have almost lost the match from an almost no-lose situation. :rolleyes:

 

[anzac]

oh well done NZ.........despite this match & series ending as a draw, I see it as nothing short of a tremendous effort by the Kiwis:

- firstly to come back at India and avoid the follow on in the 1st Test (followed by that tremendous batting on the 5th day after lunch by Astle & Macca);

- secondly to totally dominate India in the 2nd Test in ALL facets of play, and to be able to enforce the follow on. I wonder how close it would have been had Butler not suffered the side strain that limited him to only bowling 6 overs in the Indian 2nd innings???? One hopes that he recivers in time for the Home series this summer, although I see that Lee is out for a month with a similar injury!

IMO India were unable to dominate the Kiwi batsmen (who scored at a faster run rate than India), nor where they able to dominate the Kiwi bowlers, despite this being a weakened attack going into this 2nd Test - especially so on the 5th Day!

The NZ seam attack outbowled their counterparts (apart from one spell by Khan), with Tuffey the pick of the bunch. Any criticism of his accuracy or his effectiveness Away from Home should now be dispelled for good, & his reputation as a strike bowler early in his spells must be further enhanced with his efforts today.

Butler showed tremendous heart in these conditions, and must be closer to establishing himself as a regular squad & team member. He has further potential for speed as he refines his action, and for bounce as he learnes to utilise his height. While he reminds some of Bichel, I see Craig McDermott.

Meanwhile if Daniel Vettori must surely have re-established his reputation as one of the premier bowlers not only of 'left arm spin' but of spin bowling in general. What a magnifisant display of control he produced in a marathon effort in the 1st innings of this test, marred only by the measily return of 2 wickets to show for his efforts. Once again his contribution belied the cold hard black & white world of stats. It's a further shame that his effort will be further forgotten in the light of Tuffey's effort today, which earned him the MOTM.

The NZ batting card was IMO more effective than the Indians', and showed a greater depth / resiliance with the efforts of Vettori & Tuffey in the Tail. Vettori's series with the bat opens the selection possibility to see Vettori bat ahead of Hart, with Oram dropped to make way for Butler as the 3rd seamer batting in the Tail with Tuffey & Bond, with Styris & Astle providing 4th & 5th bowling options.

Vincent finally looked to repay the selector's confidence in him as Opening partner for Richardson, and Styris must have confirmed his status as No.4, and to nowadays being a batsman who sometimes bowls. Astle confirmed his class while McMillan also re-established himself & IMO was deperately unlucky not to be given MOTS, as he was the most consistant of any batsman with 2 50s & 1 ton from 3 innings. The only thing he did not do was dominate an innings with his contribution, the way that Dravid, Astle & Laxman did.

While some may decry the NZ tactics re lack of entertainment, that is only true if your interest in the game has been warped by the 'pajama party' proliferation that we have become subjected to. IMO NZ acknowledged very early on that they were unlikely to be able to take 20 wickets on either pitch with their limited attack, and so they set about the next best thing - to blunt & dominate the Indian team on their own turf. Their task to take wickets was not made any easier by India's refusal / inability to take the game to the Kiwis. My verdict - case proven!

Lastly I have no hesitation in using the unanswered questions from this series as an example of why 2 Test series between established Test nations should be banned. India 'escape' with a Home draw, while NZ receive scant recognition for their dominance / control the Home team.

 

[Tim]

Becareful about praising Vincent & Styris, sure their hundreds were great but the pitch was extremely good for batting on.

If they come back to NZ & bat like that then they'll have really done well.

 

[Tim]

Sure the NZ attack looked mediocre at times, but then again so did India's.

Had NZ been bowling against India on a pitch that offered a little more to the seamers for more than 1 session but not to the extent of the pitches in NZ last year then NZ would have won 1-0 comfortably.

India were held together by Dravid in the 1st test & as usual NZ started the series poorly with the bat but from then on NZ were the better of the 2 sides for mine.

A lot is made of the Indian batting averages, well no wonder most of them average 50 if they bat on tracks like these. Im sure a couple of NZ batsmen would love to spend some more time in India to bring their averages up to 40+.
Im not making a blast at India, but the truth is It'll take a miracle for India to beat Australia in Australia. Australia should be relatively confident they can knock India over on their bouncy tracks.

 

[Tim]

I watched Zaheer Khan closely in this series because I thought it was his big chance to prove that he is a world class bowler but instead I think he went backwards.

He took 4 wickets in NZ's 1st innings in the 1st test, but at that stage the NZ batsmen were mentally fatigued from 2 & 1/2 days in the field & some of their shot selections were poor to say the least.

Not once did Zaheer hit 140 km's, much has been made of his speed & I guess I was starting to wonder whether the speed gun was useless until Ian Butler showed up & immediatley bowled into the high 140's in the 2nd test.

I think Zaheer's future lies in ODI's where he seems to enjoy the white ball better.

 

[Tim]

I think the career batting averages of the NZ players reflect the huge strides NZ have made in Cricket from about 10 years ago when arguably Crowe was our only decent batsmen and we were lucky to have batsmen averaging more than 28 or 30.

Lou Vincent - 33.54
Mark Richardson - 49.36
Stephen Fleming - 37.98
Scott Styris - 42.81
Nathan Astle - 39.04
Craig McMillan - 42.62

Average: 40.90

In recent months Fleming, Astle & McMillan especially have increased their averages +3 or 4.
Vincent's efforts in India has pushed his average above 30 & hopefully it will continue to rise.
Styris is only in his 7th test so at the moment his average of 42 is blown out a little but he's proving he is capable of averaging that high.

If all the NZ players could be averaging 40+ by the end of the NZ summer and Vincent maybe up to 35 or close to 40 then that would be a great achievement.

 

[Tim]

I think NZ are at the point now where they are a good team..batting averages are up, fielding is good & bowling averages are reasonably low.

But for them to become great they've got to start converting some of these drawn tests into victories. Getting a 2nd spinner who can take wickets in partnership with Vettori will go a long way to the reaching the goal but I can't really see too many in NZ..maybe Bruce Martin? I think he has the best FC average for a spinner in NZ with something like 24 compared to Vettori who is at 31.

The other thing is that im still not sure Oram is the best option as an all-rounder for NZ at test level. Kyle Mills has easily the best FC stats as an all-rounder in the country at the moment & I think he's good enough to be tried at #7.

 

[Anil]

Sure the NZ attack looked mediocre at times, but then again so did India's.

Had NZ been bowling against India on a pitch that offered a little more to the seamers for more than 1 session but not to the extent of the pitches in NZ last year then NZ would have won 1-0 comfortably.

India were held together by Dravid in the 1st test & as usual NZ started the series poorly with the bat but from then on NZ were the better of the 2 sides for mine.

A lot is made of the Indian batting averages, well no wonder most of them average 50 if they bat on tracks like these. Im sure a couple of NZ batsmen would love to spend some more time in India to bring their averages up to 40+.
Im not making a blast at India, but the truth is It'll take a miracle for India to beat Australia in Australia. Australia should be relatively confident they can knock India over on their bouncy tracks.

As far as I am aware, only Dravid and Tendulkar of the current players average over 50 in tests and you have to agree that both these players have done a little more in their careers than just bat well on dead tracks....

The Indian attack is maybe not the worst in the world, but you are right, they can be quite mediocre and their heads hang quickly once the batting side starts to dominate....

As far as beating Australia in Australia is concerned, I think it would be a great achievement by this Indian side if they show some fight and avoid a whitewash. Right now, winning the series against even a partly fit Aussie side doesn't seem to be in the realm of the possible!

 

[anzac]

IMO Oram was being grromed to take over Cairns' role in the side, but after this series there has to be some questions raised regarding his batting contribution - or more particularly the lack of it to date.

IMO he did not really use his height & reach to his advantage to either cover the spin nor to break up the bowler's length. Further more I think he would be more suited playing his natural game and make his shots or hit the ball hard.

Astle's dismissal when he cam down the wicket in the 1st Test can be partly attributed to his wanting to advance the run rate, which had dried up when Oram came to the crease. Not only was Oram not scoring runs, but he was unable to rotate the strike to keep the singles going and use the left & right hand batting combination.

After the 2nd Test I can imagine Vettori batting at 7 ahead of Hart, and Butler coming in for Oram to join Tuffey and Bond as the seam attack. This selection would depend on the type of opposition & pitch, as Oram does bat more comfortably v seam where his height helps to negate the rising delivery.

 

[Tim]

I saw an interview with Jacob Oram & he said he is a batsmen who bowls..and that he reckons he should be batting higher up the order.

Well i've got news for him, if he reckons he can score more runs than Astle or McMillan then he needs to prove it quickly.
He scored a 100 in the warm-up match against India 'A' so he does have some ability with the bat but its a different kettle of fish at test level & he's been very inconsistent so far at 7.

I think Kyle Mills is a better option as all-rounder to be honest.

Vettori could be a good #8, I think 7 is a little too high because at times he rides his luck. But I think maybe he & Hart could switch between each other depending on whether NZ need quick runs or some gritty defending.

 

[Tim]

I reckon this will be the team for the 1st test against Pakistan:

Mark Richardson
Lou Vincent
Stephen Fleming
Scott Styris
Nathan Astle
Craig McMillan
Robbie Hart
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Daryl Tuffey
Ian Butler

Although Hart has been good in his short test career, he needs to score some more runs or else Brendon McCullum will quickly take his place...McCullum was a far better 4 day player for NZ U19's than he was at OD level.

 

[Tim]

If Cairns manages to play out the tri-series injury free then there is a big chance he'll be available for test cricket as an all-rounder so that could seriously put players like Butler & Styris under pressure to keep doing well.

Nathan Astle apparently is 50/50 re: the 1st test against Pakistan so Cairns may slot in at 6 should that happen.

Whatever happens don't expect Cairns to be bowling at his best in India, I think he'll be very rusty & the seamers will probably have a nightmare in this tri-series.