*Official* New Zealand in India Thread

[The Argonaut]

Maybe Dravid should be considered with the best. He is the only guy in the Indian squad (along with SRT) who scores consistently away from home. Maybe Hayden and Vaughan should also be considered with Lara, SRT and Ponting in the best list.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Maybe Dravid should be considered with the best. He is the only guy in the Indian squad (along with SRT) who scores consistently away from home. Maybe Hayden and Vaughan should also be considered with Lara, SRT and Ponting in the best list.

I rank them this way...

Tendulkar
Lara
Ponting
Hayden
Dravid
Vaughan

 

[anzac]

In India's case it would allow 3 seamers and the 2 spinners - any other way the bowling does look weak since 2 seamers is not enough, and omitting one of Harb and Kumble is a big call.

my point exactly re the seamers - 2 seamers on Aussie pitches is never going to be enough unless you get a real turner at Sydney.

India's 5th bowling option in Oz can not be more part time spinners such as Sachin or Sehwag, as they generaly will not get much assistance to be effective. Ganguly would be a better option, but he does not bowl often enough to keep on top of his game & be effective Down Under - he will not get the same assistance he had in England.

So far as 5 bowlers not being likely to do the job if 4 can't, even the Aussies have recently gone into Tests with a 3 seam 2 spin attack if the pitch has been flat - a lesson they learned from their lost tour of India perhaps, and even more significant when you consider the quality of their bowling attack!

 

[anzac]

I rank them this way...

Tendulkar
Lara
Ponting
Hayden
Dravid
Vaughan

does Lara's recent form (last 3 seasons) justify his ranking ahead of Ponting, Hayden or Dravid?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

does Lara's recent form (last 3 seasons) justify his ranking ahead of Ponting, Hayden or Dravid?

Well, he played one of the greatest single series of all time in Sri Lanka... then he got injured. Then he returned to modest form initially... then he got sick. Then he returned with a fine match-winning hundred against SA in the WC and had a decent tournament. Then he played brilliantly against the Australians. Then he dismantled the Sri Lankan bowling attack. I think he's done alright.

Besides, I'm not PWC. I don't rank based on a certain period of form. I rank over a wide span of time.

Besides Lara played superbly in the 2003 homes series. Ponting did too, but he faced Dillon, Collins and co. with the support of Hayden, Langer, Waugh, Lehmann and Gilchrist. Lara faced Gillespie, Lee, MacGill and Hogg with virtually no consistent support.

 

[anzac]

Back to the 1st Test........

A BIG moral victory for NZ, and a triumphant return to form for Astle & Macca, with Vincent at last showing some value in his wicket in the 2nd innings, and Vettori having a good outing with both ball and bat.

In contrast to some observers I don't think India ever showed enough to WIN this test, and were only 'in control' with the early loss of wickets in the Kiwi 1st innings at the end of Day 2, and the quick loss of Tuffey, Fleming & Styris in the 2nd on Day 5! However in both instances they failed to press home their advantage and NZ were able to regroup and consolidate.

IMO the batting tactics in the 1st innings lacked the sense of purpose to forge a winning platform early enough, particularly when the general concensus was that India was never likely to enforce a follow on with only 4 front line bowlers!

Yes India were never bowled out and amassed 750+ runs, but IMO the NZ tactics in the field were never intended to bowl India out, but to deny their ability to score quick runs & boundaries.

When in the field I got the impression that India was waiting for things to happen as the pitch broke up and gave assistance to their spinners. When this didn't happen Ganguly persisted with using his seamers, and under utlilised his strike bowlers at critical times. As much as the NZ attack lacked penetration, so too did the Indian when the pitch did not break up on the 5th Day, and they failed to pressure the Kiwis with defensive fields.

The 370 target for victory offered the Kiwis was never going to be a realistic over 3 1/2 sessions of play, due to the run rate required (disregarding India's blast in their 2nd innings to chase quick runs in order to declare), and the fact that NZ's most effective batsman (Astle), had been off the field ill for most of the afternoon of the 4th Day.

When it became obvious the Kiwis were batting for a draw, Ganguly showed an inability / reluctance to try to make things happen by his field settings. Both Astle & McMillan like to go after the bowling, and yet were not invited to do so in any attempt to 'buy' a wicket to expose the lower order & tail!

This Test should not be seen as 'one that got away' from India, but rather a victory of the Kiwi game plan & tenacity.

It is a shame that Dravid's 222 is lost in this mess.

 

[anzac]

While the Kiwi's can feel justified in some satisfaction at their efforts, they can not afford any smugness / complacency going into the 2nd Test.

The bowling attack needs tweaking regarding the lack of penetration in the seam attack. I missed Day 4, but looking at his run rate of over 5 1/2 it would appear that Wiseman's 4 wickets came via India's chase for quick runs, rather than outstanding bowling. Depending on the pitch (which reportedly will have more bounce & turn), perhaps a change of Butler for Wiseman is required. While Oram did not offer much penetration he was generally the more economical of the Kiwi seamers.

With the batting the re-emergence of Astle & McMillan gives confidence for the middle & lower order. Similarly Vincent showed encouraging signs with his 2nd innings to justify his continued selection as opening partner for Richardson.

Vettori's innings gives good arguement to his promotion up the order, perhaps more so when batting on flat / dead pitches rather than perhaps on seamer friendly pitches / attacks. A swap with him & Oram who looks decidedly uncomfortable against a predominant spin attack.

Oram showed a predetermination to play spin off the front foot, possibly feeling disadvantaged by his height to play 'back', yet his wide stance did not assist his shot selection, and he did not use his height to smother the spin off the front foot by getting to the pitch of the ball. He has shown he can bat with a century on Tour & likes to free his arms - perhaps by getting to the pitch of the spinners he could force them to change their length and allow him to free his arms. More than anything he needs to not only show patience, but needs to be able to rotate the strike if not scoring freely - Aslte's dismissal could be attributed to Oram not being able to do this, whereas Vettori may be a better option to support the middle order.

Styris bowled more overs than in any Test to date, and perhaps the effects of doing so in these conditions showed in his batting. His 1st innings efforts enabled NZ to regroup and see off the seam & 'new ball' attack in what was IMO the most crucial period of the match on the morning of Day 3, and his 91 run partnership with Astle showed that the Kiwis could survive on this pitch.

Perhaps he is another who could benefit from a change in the order v a predominant spin attack as he too naturally plays from the front foot & 'reaches' for the ball on these low & slow pitches - more so perhaps if he is required to also contribute to the bowling. A change with Astle or McMillan?

One pleasing aspect from the batting was the partnerships the Kiwi middle order achieved were as good as anything the Indians produced against the weaker NZ attack, apart from perhaps that of Dravid & Ganguly on Day 2 when batting conditions were at their best.

So perhaps a change with Butler in for Wiseman, and maybe a change or two in the batting oder depending on the circumstances / requirements.

 

[anzac]

India IMO was disappointing and so was the lack of crowd at the match. No crowd = no atmosphere & the Indians seemed to feel this especially in the field. It became very obvious that this team had not played Test cricket for 9 months, but I expected more effort and enthusiasm when in the field.

While their batting was never challenged they never really asked questions of the Kiwi tactics in the field. Even when chasing quick runs in their 2nd innings they maintained the same lineup rather than promoting some of their more aggressive batsmen to score quicker & give them more time to bowl at the Kiwis.

Chopra looks the goods so far as maintaining his wicket, but scores at a slow rate which did not help in the 2nd innings. He was a revelation at forward shortleg.

Balaji was given more bowling than he warranted, not only as seam v spin, but also as he bowled more overs than Khan who is India's best seamer.

Harb did not use the crease to his advantage and did not go around the wicket. By maintaining the same point of attack he allowed the Kiwi batsmen to get into their groove, particularly when they were not trying to attack him.

Kumble was under bowled at crucial times, and was immediatley effective when introduced. When the batsmen showed signs of settling in against him he was prepared to change his point of attack and his pace.

Dravid was magnificant with the bat, while neither Sehwag nor Sachin ever really got going or stayed long enough to have an influence on this match.

IMO the only things Ganguly got right were his century and the timing of his 1st declaration - even then I do not think they had scored quickly enough. Likewise in their 2nd innings they should have given themselves perhaps another session to bowl at the Kiwis but had not scored enough runs to do so.

Having said that they had ample opportunity in the last 2 sessions of the match to attack the batsmen, but not only failed to do so, but also failed to restrict them scoring from their bail out shot being the sweep. Even more astounding was the eventual response was to move Chopra from forward short leg to short fine leg - gifting an easy single on leg side to mid wicket. Rarely against Vincent, Astle or McMillan were both positions covered at the same time.

Rather there was an under employed player positioned on the boundary on either side square of the wicket, and a second a bit finer on leg side but still as more a backward square leg for the lofted pull / hook rather than a deep fine leg for the sweep.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Ganguly was disappointing as he is the major influence on the field, but in his defence he did not get a lot of support (advice, talk, geeing up the team etc) from his senior players when in the field.


Overall impressions - a C- for the Indians and a B+ for the Kiwis.

:duh:

 

[esgallindeion]

Overall impressions - Vettori was the main reason why India cldn't win, imo. And I rate his 1st innings half century as the best NZ performance in the 1st test (even ahead of Astle's century).

 

[Anil]

With Mohali traditionally a bouncy wicket and India enjoying mixed fortunes there, New Zealand must really fancy their chances of pulling off a series win in India.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

And Salvi damages his hand, meaning AA has returned to the squad, and is tipped to play ahead of the great hope!

hope from you and noone else
lol
for his ake i hope he gets a couple of wickets..and maybe hit the ball when he is batting

 

[marc71178]

hope from you and noone else

Actually not at all from me, or any of the regulars on here.

I refer to Balaji...

 

[anzac]

Astle out of the ODIs having aggravated his knee & will be replaced by Nevin, although he (Astle) will play in the 2nd Test at this stage.

 

[Anil]

Astle out of the ODIs having aggravated his knee & will be replaced by Nevin, although he (Astle) will play in the 2nd Test at this stage.

That is a big blow for NZ....especially as he was coming into form....

 

[Anil]

hope from you and noone else
lol
for his ake i hope he gets a couple of wickets..and maybe hit the ball when he is batting

Ye of little faith! The great one could very well decide the course of the 2nd test, he has the ability to even steer it New Zealand's way!:P

 

[Neil Pickup]

Ganguly missing the second Test, Yuvraj called up to replace him.

Gambhir won't be happy.

 

[Anil]

Ganguly missing the second Test, Yuvraj called up to replace him.

Gambhir won't be happy.

If Ganguly is replaced by an opener like Gambhir and if Gambhir and Chopra click in Mohali with Sehwag going down the order, ideally Ganguly will have to come back replacing either Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman or Sehwag since India really cannot afford(atleast IMO) to overlook an in-form opening pair with the Australian tour right around the corner.

So, replacing Ganguly with Yuvraj is really a way of saving Ganguly's job. As it is, all this experimentation with makeshift openers(Sehwag, Bangar et al) has been instrumental in saving Ganguly's position(which is the weakest in the middle order) in the middle order so far.

I know that I am saying this in the wake of a Ganguly century in the 1st test, but over a period of the last 2-3 years, this statement has some validity to it, I feel.

 

[esgallindeion]

I'm glad Yuvraj is getting a chance. But I hope he plays his natural game. Another advantage of having him in the side will be his bowling.

 

[lord_of_darkness]

hmm i really doubt if Yuvraj can hold the ship steady though?

 

[esgallindeion]

Well... I have always felt that he has a better defence than Sehwag.