***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[silentstriker]

I don't think this is the pitch to try the short stuff - not for this long at least. Especially the mid 120s short stuff that's happening right now.

 

[Burgey]

It must be such a weird game to be playing now. It's ended as a contest barring someone playing some insane knock to force a draw. The players must feel like they're just moving towards an inevitable conclusion

 

[honestbharani]

It must be such a weird game to be playing now. It's ended as a contest barring someone playing some insane knock to force a draw. The players must feel like they're just moving towards an inevitable conclusion

Its a lot easier when the collapse happens in the 3rd or 4th innings, isn't it? The misery is short lived in a sense.

 

[nzfan]

Ajaz has bowled 69 overs in 2 days. I'm fast losing faith in Latham as a better captain of spin. Somerville is so underused it's a joke he agreed to pick Somerville. Not sure what we're trying to do here.

Same goes for Southee, for all the wonderful spells in the first test he's not looking like taking a wicket. What's the point in having Jamieson as our strike bowler.

Why is no one getting a bowl except Southee and Patel?

Obviously, I understand why Patel is getting plenty of overs ... but why not find something out about Rachin in reasonably favourable conditions? At least get something from the wreckage.

No problem with Somers being banished to a 3rd man or wherever.

I think our perrineal problem managing spin bowling. Kane and now Latham making sure no one takes up spin bowling in our country going forward. I thought Latham was better but he's turned out no different.

What's surprising is why not bowl Sommerville? Why pick him at all? They'll bring him when the batters are settled and smash him all over the place.

The only time they use Rachin is before lunch or tea. He hasn't even bowled badly. Maybe one short ball? What are they expecting from him, bowl like Murali?

Going by this series I don't see us making any headway in spin department. Solely our management's own doing I think. This has been going on for decades. I can understand in the 80s but now we tour sub continent lot more. We've done really well developing fast bowling and batting stock but we haven't changed much as for spin is concerned. Reluctance to use the stock they pick is intriguing.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah it brings about the end much faster, whereas this way really drags out the inevitable

 

[Moss]

Ravindra seems to be regarded as a last-over-before-the-break specialist.

Latham’s approach to bowling changes has been odd at times, though 2 bowlers being unthreatening hasn’t helped i guess.

EDIT: I see nzfan has come up with a far more elaborate version of this post above

 

[nzfan]

Ravindra seems to be regarded as a last-over-before-the-break specialist.

Latham’s approach to bowling changes has been odd at times, though 2 bowlers being unthreatening hasn’t helped i guess.

EDIT: I see NZFan has come up with a far more elaborate version of this post above

Very frustrating to watch. If there's only two bowlers Latham has faith in then why pick so many? Is steady pushing for these bowler's selection and Latham making sure not to use them like Kane used to with Santner?

 

[thierry henry]

I think our perrineal problem managing spin bowling.

Yeah it’s a real pain in the arse

 

[nzfan]

The strike rates of the top three spinners

Warne - 58
Murali - 70
Kumble - 66

On an average they'll have to bowl like 10 overs or over to nip a wicket, that's the great ones.

Vettori - 80 (13-14 overs per wicket)

On an average we've been bowling our spinners in 3-4 over spells (Barring Ajaz).

This series we've even gone with 1 over spell.

I have no doubt any sub continent captain would have used our spinners way better than we have.

 

[Moss]

Going by this series I don't see us making any headway in spin department. Solely our management's own doing I think. This has been going on for decades. I can understand in the 80s but now we tour sub continent lot more. We've done really well developing fast bowling and batting stock but we haven't changed much as for spin is concerned. Reluctance to use the stock they pick is intriguing.

Having Vettori as a lock-in for a decade and a half ironically may have made the idea of taking up a full-time spinner’s role an unattractive proposition for others. That’s without even going into the pitches. Led to a situation where you had NZ willing to put so much into the Ish Sodhi project on the basis of very modest first class stats. Safe to say that hasn’t gone according to plan.

AY Patel is breath of fresh air for now, though it’ll be a challenge for him to kick in once they return to NZ. Topic which needs a separate thread (and probably has one already).

 

[silentstriker]

Looks like cricinfo posted our question:

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

This is the first time (if India were to declare now) that a bowler was the only wicket taker for a team across two innings.

 

[Victor Ian]

ICC Test rankings are meaningless if top 2 teams are so close to each other. Both IND/NZ deserve no.1 rankings.

Not responding to you, in particular. But once a governing body creates a title and you don't win it, you have to suck it up and accept that your team is **** and the other is supreme. I mean let's be serious. The fact this is only a 2 test series makes it JAM. New Zealand wins when it matters. They ARE the best team in the world.

 

[nzfan]

Next captain we pick we need to make sure he's **** vs spin.

Having Vettori as a lock-in for a decade and a half ironically may have made the idea of taking up a full-time spinner’s role an unattractive proposition for others. That’s without even going into the pitches. Led to a situation where you had NZ willing to put so much into the Ish Sodhi project on the basis of very modest first class stats. Safe to say that hasn’t gone according to plan.

AY Patel is breath of fresh air for now, though it’ll be a challenge for him to kick in once they return to NZ. Topic which needs a separate thread (and probably has one already).

Just hoping he gets a go at home after this outstanding effort. It'd be a shame to not see him play.

The green carpet in first class cricket all over (it's looking a bit better this season in some centers) needs to change. We can't develop spinners in the nets. They need to be bowling good number of overs in the middle. Ajaz has bowled plenty of overs in the domestic circuit over the years and the results are showing. Contrast that with Santner that barely plays first class.

There's a lot of promise in Ravindra's bowling. There's no way he's going to develop his bowling at home (particularly in Wellington). Maybe time to make some phone calls to get him a gig at county cricket. Otherwise yet another spinner of promise will be lost.

 

[nzfan]

Glad to see Somerville with the ball but not glad to see him bowling wicket to wicket.

 

[SteveNZ]

Very frustrating to watch. If there's only two bowlers Latham has faith in then why pick so many? Is steady pushing for these bowler's selection and Latham making sure not to use them like Kane used to with Santner?

I don't feel like it's that easy. New Zealand are trying to pad for time, in some 0.01% chance there is some rain or other minor miracle that might earn a draw. Somerville has bowled like an absolute drain this series, so Latham can't trust him to stem the runs. The short stuff managed to do it with the seamers, and Ajaz is keeping things reasonably tight too + is a wicket taker.

As for who selected Somerville for this Test, I'd like to know who that was. Once he was in, Latham had every right not to bowl him after the dross in the first innings (bare in mind Somerville bowled 19 which was more than Jamieson and almost as many as Southee)

 

[silentstriker]

I guess maybe India re using this time to have Kohli play himself into a little bit of form before the SA series.

 

[straw man]

Ravindra seems to be regarded as a last-over-before-the-break specialist.

I wondered if having the runs (apparently) as nzfan mentioned is why he wasn't given more responsibility this match, with either bat (could've been at 3) or ball (more overs).

At the same time, I keep subconsciously asking myself if we're bowling Ajaz too much and are gonna wreck him, and remind myself he's a spinner and despite bowling nearly 70 overs this match is probably still gagging to bowl more before he's relegated to background-guy on the spinner's graveyards at home.

 

[nzfan]

That one over to Kohli shows we've botched big time in this test match. Two edges, one beaten against likely one of the top 4 batter in the world.

 

[nzfan]

I'm not sure if that wicket to wicket bowling plan from Somerville or is it management's decision. It's just not working

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hey Kohli where the #intent gone