***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[vandem]

Oh yeah, I completely get the idea. But Somerville is a very one-dimensional off-spinner. Couple that with the fact NZ went in without any left arm seamers to create rough, and India don't have any either, and it was obvious a lot wasn't aligning in favour of Somerville playing.

Then you add in the fact that Wagner has made a career out of taking wickets in tough conditions, and just that he sits so well in this side in terms of his competitiveness and willingness to keep going. I'm not for one second suggesting that's the difference between victory and defeat, but I don't think we made the right call there.

I think nervousness about 2nd spinner options meant Somerville was always going to play the 1st test.

NZ selectors missed a chance by not picking Ravindra at Lord's in June. Instead they went with conservative option of Santner, just in case they turned up to Southampton for WTC final and found a very brown pitch and wanted a spin option instead of de Grandhomme (who was still coming back from injury).

So now they arrive at Kanpur and Ravindra's bowling hasn't been tested at the highest level, Phillips might take the odd wicket but will leak runs, and Santner is a no-rounder at test level.

If Ravindra had been picked at Lord's he would have batted at 6-293 and could have bowled the 10 + 13 overs that weren't bowled by the 3 quicks + de Grandhomme, and captain and coach might have had more confidence in using him as a 2nd spinner at Kanpur.

 

[nzfan]

I think nervousness about 2nd spinner options meant Somerville was always going to play the 1st test.

NZ selectors missed a chance by not picking Ravindra at Lord's in June. Instead they went with conservative option of Santner, just in case they turned up to Southampton for WTC final and found a very brown pitch and wanted a spin option instead of de Grandhomme (who was still coming back from injury).

So now they arrive at Kanpur and Ravindra's bowling hasn't been tested at the highest level, Phillips might take the odd wicket but will leak runs, and Santner is a no-rounder at test level.

If Ravindra had been picked at Lord's he would have batted at 6-293 and could have bowled the 10 + 13 overs that weren't bowled by the 3 quicks + de Grandhomme, and captain and coach might have had more confidence in using him as a 2nd spinner at Kanpur.

As I see he has a good future with the ball... he won't likely be Vettori like NZC thinks but will do a good job. He has good control no doubt, saw him using the crease, changing the pace consistently. This in the first game. The team management must be feeding good data. I saw plenty of Jeetan Patel when he was of the same age. He was nowhere near where Ravindra is at the moment. Jeetan went on to become super good over the years but he became really good when he was about 28-29 years of age. Most spinners become really good late 20s for some reason. Ravindra is still 22 and has many years to improve. Under Kane and Latham he will continue to improve no doubt.

I'd be very keen to know where Ashwin and Jadeja were when they were 22. Were there as good as they are now? Not trying to compare or suggest Ravindra could end up as good but just wondering relatively how good were they at the same age.

 

[Niall]

are they really going to remove iyer when kohli comes back...after this debut? especially when there are so many walking wickets in the top and middle order?

In the SC it makes sense that Iyer replaces Rahane,,,but overseas Vihari seems the designated specialist batman .

If Iyer plays next test and does well, then it does seem harsh for him not play in South Africa even if there are concerns with him regarding those pitches.

 

[Gnske]

The concerns about Iyer pale in comparison to the concerns about Rahane and Pujara. Both of whom are now only harming Indian cricket by staying in the team.

 

[honestbharani]

His behaviour is more obnoxious because he can't back it up outside India (or Aus I guess, those total goons). If this series is in NZ he averages 80 with the ball again, if he even plays.

It would be a bit like us fielding will williams, matt mcewan and ross ter braak at home and them carrying on like dickheads haha. You know theyre toast outside nz.

The salt.... C'est tres magnifique

 

[Niall]

The concerns about Iyer pale in comparison to the concerns about Rahane and Pujara. Both of whom are now only harming Indian cricket by staying in the team.

Agreed there ain't much upside to either of those 2. The reason at least one of them needs to be binned ASAP for me is when you look at the batting its relatively old so they need to start phasing out the seniors who are not performing and figure out who can be the match winners in the future.

Iyer may fail in South Africa, but if he has a good second test then he deserves an opportunity to perform in South Africa, and who knows he may even surprise the doubters. Heck, even if he fails he may learn from the experience and return to South Africa in a few years as a much more accomplished batsman.

 

[Xix2565]

The salt.... C'est tres magnifique

Doesn't the greatest spin bowler not named M. Murali always say "If it seams it spins"? Don't know why we're using the most recent NZ series to diss this evolved Ashwin.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

The salt.... C'est tres magnifique

You can genuinely dislike players, even your own, because of their lack of sportsmanship. I have forever criticised Brendan McCullum for his Murali & Mpofu run out shenanigans as well as various other character traits. Concerns about sportsmanship can be legitimate, even if you put aside the context of the current match or series.

 

[Test fan]

Nz can win this match if they got one big partnership just like india Gabba win.

 

[vandem]

You can genuinely dislike players, even your own, because of their lack of sportsmanship. I have forever criticised Brendan McCullum for his Murali & Mpofu run out shenanigans as well as various other character traits. Concerns about sportsmanship can be legitimate, even if you put aside the context of the current match or series.

Agree totally. Incidents like Chappells' underarm or BMac's "run out" of Murali and Ashwin fake action Mankad "run out" are just shithousery and players should go and play football if they want to do this.

 

[straw man]

Most likely this ends part way through the second session - that's usually how this match situation goes.

Annoyed won't get to watch Young bat after he was the best to watch first innings.

 

[Bahnz]

Most likely this ends part way through the second session - that's usually how this match situation goes.

Annoyed won't get to watch Young bat after he was the best to watch first innings.

Wouldn't be hugely surprised if NZ get bundled out by lunch. It's going to be ridiculously hard surviving against a hard new ball first thing this morning. If NZ can somehow make it through to lunch no more than 3 down then a draw would just about become favourite imo.

 

[harsh.ag]

Wouldn't be hugely surprised if NZ get bundled out by lunch. It's going to be ridiculously hard surviving against a hard new ball first thing this morning. If NZ can somehow make it through to lunch no more than 3 down then a draw would just about become favourite imo.

If NZ were 3 down at tea, then the draw would be just about the favourite

 

[straw man]

Lol Saha unable to keep and gets a sub, able to bat and makes a score, then unable to keep again and gets a sub again.

 

[Meridio]

Wickets tend to fall in a bunch on these kinds of surfaces though. It's very hard to come in on a low, slow pitch with variable bounce against spinners - even if the pitch hasn't deteriorated as much as we thought. Seen it a lot in the past, you get a big partnership but once that's broken teams can crumble. 3 down at tea still gives India plenty of hope, especially if KW is one of those

 

[_Ed_]

Lol Saha unable to keep and gets a sub, able to bat and makes a score, then unable to keep again and gets a sub again.

I'm sure there used to be a rule against sub wicketkeepers from outside the playing XI.

 

[honestbharani]

You can genuinely dislike players, even your own, because of their lack of sportsmanship. I have forever criticised Brendan McCullum for his Murali & Mpofu run out shenanigans as well as various other character traits. Concerns about sportsmanship can be legitimate, even if you put aside the context of the current match or series.

The point is, I have absolutely zero problems with anything Ash did yesterday. There is nothing to criticize him pointing out the obvious. Its just all salt, and no substance from Flem, as usual.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol Saha unable to keep and gets a sub, able to bat and makes a score, then unable to keep again and gets a sub again.

Yeah I mean there has been no batsmen ever who have needed subs for fielding but batted coz of injury in the history of cricket. Lol.

 

[_Ed_]

Glorious straight drive by Somerville!

 

[honestbharani]

Rahane continuing some clueless captaincy again. Why the **** is Umesh bowling now? He is not a swing bowler these days and we dont have genuine swing bowler in the XI who can utilize these winter morning conditions. Just bowl your best bets, FFS.